Recently my family and I have been enjoying some of the local fox population coming into our yard in the country eating fallen fruit etc. from our yard. We felt we were blessed to observe such elusive and wild animals us close and personal. We looked forward to this occurance every evening. And then came the redneck fox hunters. I observed one of our precious red fox friends being taken out of the woods torn to shreds with nothing remaining but a little fur, hide, and head remaining. I don't concider turning thirty, two foot tall dogs loose on a fifteen inch tall fox sport. The fox doesn't have a chance as I read one of your posters say they did. There is no way a fox can get away from all those dogs which can run twice as fast as them. Please don't think this post is from someone that is against hunting. I have been hunting all my life, but the difference is, I believe in a swift and humane kill, not barbaric brutality that is happening with this rediculous sport called fox hunting. The dogs catch the fox alive and literally tear him to shreds alive. I am having a hard time dealing with this burtality and just wish I could find a way to put a stop to it. Lets try to put this whole thing into perspective. How about you fox hunters running through the woods and let me turn loose a pack of human hunting dogs loose on you and lets see how you feel when they catch up with you and tear you to shreds alive. Of course you should love it because you have been killed instantly and it didn't hurt. Take that thought to bed with you. Another food for thought, I'll bet if your wives and kids knew how you were killing these foxes on a hunt they would have a different view of what a big man they thought you were.
EJ, Wednesday, 10 November 2010
I have hunted with my local hunt since the age of 8, I love animals and I love fox hunting, although if I ever witness a kill up close it doesn't make me feel good. Although I think it is fair. I can say from personal experience that the foxes are far more sly and fast than the hounds and can very often escape easily. CM has the right idea. We don't tell anyone what they may or may not do. Some of the comments on this site are quite amusing, it is very obvious that almost every single opposer to fox hunting who has posted on this has no idea about hunting, and did not try to find anything out before condemning it. Also I think you would find that the reason there are so little pro hunting comments here is that the pro hunting people tend to be a little less obsessive over the subject and mind their own on the whole.
Fred D, Saturday, 12 June 2010
Actually, with the hunting ban in place, the anti's are much happier than they were a few years ago when hunting was leagal, yet current hunt rates have never been higher, and there have been almost no prosecutionsin the last year it's a sort of win win situation. If the law was repealed, then anti's would be very unhappy, and I wouldn't be surprised if they rioted...
CM from Canada, Friday, 30 April 2010
and as a corollary: I accept that others have the right to disagree with foxhunting, no one is asking them to participate. But keep your opinions to yourselves. I don't agree with people's right to be fat and wear crocs either or dress their pets up in pink, but I don't go around making them change.
CM from Canada, Friday, 30 April 2010
the issue is not whether the fox population needs to be controlled. Even if foxhunting is the most humane way of controlling it. The issue is whether people have the choice to decide on how they choose to spend their time. Foxhunting is no more cruel to animals than eating meat, using animals for research, or wearing leather shoes. And the issue is that what is considered "normal" or ethical to one person might not be the same for another. But that doesn't mean its wrong or should be banned. Most people agree murdering another human is unethical, stealing from them etc. These are acts that infringe on human rights. But why infringe on the right of someone to do as they choose if they are not hurting someone else? Foxhunting does not "hurt" the fox, the fox is killed instantly, and is certainly not afraid of dieing (since it doesn't know what dieing is). Please leave these poor people alone to do what is considered acceptable (and perfectly legal) to a large number of people in the world (North America for example!). Why are other forms of hunting considered "legal" but foxhunting is not? Animals are more likely to suffer if they are shot than killed instantly by a dog. What could be more natural for a wild animal? Predator and Prey. Get over yourselves with your talk of "barbaric acts' and go and enjoy your hamburger in your leather shoes.
Dave Stockport, Thursday, 4 March 2010
As we were told before foxhunting was banned it was not a blood sport it was essentiol. If we did not have folk in red coats and blaring horns forcing horses over dangerous jumps we would be over-run by foxes. So where are all the foxes? Only two answers are clear. The first being the obvious that the bloodthirsty lied and just wanted to make their "sport" look acceptable. The second must be that the foxes have taken up birth control as they no longer see their family ripped apart to entertain the "upper classes", well its possible, they always out-foxed the hunters. As for the job losses. How many jobs have gone? A damm sight less than in industry. But then Industry is not a sport old chap. In sort the proof is that the rich must now find other things to kill in order to feed their blood-lust. Who knows they might even one day hunt each other. Now thats a "sport" That would be worth watching.
none, Friday, 27 November 2009
Foxes are around in London and cities more now. I have seen them and heard them outside. One even just walked straight past me. I would like to know why people who fear things grately think that it is fine to kill it, destroy it or just ignore it's existence.
Donkey, Thursday, 29 October 2009
Who is it that asks all these questions?
Maggie, Monday, 17 August 2009
Good to hear that Caroline! It's nice to know of others who like horses but despise cruelty.
Caroline Campbell, Sunday, 16 August 2009
I live and work in the countryside and i am a "country person" (NOT a "Townie") through and through, I have had some losses due to fox predation (my fault as i didn't secure the door properly)! Very easily prevented. I own and ride horses , compete regularly in horse events all over the country but i think any hunting with hounds is one of the most disturbing acts of animal abuse in the world today and the ban MUST be re enforced not repealed. I'm also extremely ashamed to be linked to this disgusting spectacle through my love of horses. Get a life fellow countrymen! and remember that most country dwellers are NOT behind you!!!
Chris, Thursday, 6 August 2009
How about if I took one of your horses and let a pack of dogs rip it to shreds.....wouldn't be a sport then would it??... Thought not!
jessica fox, Thursday, 9 July 2009
Bearing in mind that the overwhelming majority of comments on this site support the view that fox hunting is a hideous and unjustifiable practice, I find the percentages (currently 52% birthright, 48% brutality) hard to believe. I think it is likely that this site is purely a vehicle of the pro-hunting lobby and the intention is to imply that they have popular support, when every poll or survey has shown quite the opposite.
dave white, Tuesday, 7 July 2009
people who hunt do it because they enjoy killing, otherwise they would agree to drag hunt. I have nothing but contempt for these morons
Sheila, Wednesday, 1 July 2009
"Nature does not belong to the human race, but to God, its creator. God appointed us stewards of nature, so that we might respect it and thus discover the true basis of our own existence." His Holiness Pope John Paul II.
"The THINKING man must oppose all cruel customs no matter how deeply rooted in tradition and surrounded by a halo. When we have a choice, we must avoid bringing torment and injury into the life of another, even the lowliest creature; to do so is to renounce our manhood and shoulder a guilt which nothing justifies." - Albert Schweitzer
Maggie, Saturday, 27 June 2009
Maria - that's such a sad story. Poor little mite - the hunting season is over so there is no way they should be doing that! Hope they were prosecuted. Once again the fact they having to 'train' pups to kill foxes is blatant proof that fox hunting is one of the most unnatural events going! The fox is not a natural prey for a dog.
Maria, Thursday, 25 June 2009
For crying out loud stop the white wash. I volunteer at a wildlife sanctuary and currently have in my care a cub under 4 months old who is minus an eye after an attempt by terriermen to dig him from his earth to 'train' this years crop of pups. Sadly his brother and sister were not so fortunate and suffered grisly ends. All for the pleasure of the Cheshire hunt. The ban must be upheld. I only wish there was a feature for uploading images on this message board to show why it must never be overturned.
Sheri Bee, Thursday, 18 June 2009
SPORT????? its not a sport!!! How about i chase you toffs till your heart is beating so fast its about to explode then rip you to shreads!! Yeah sounds great!
I can see no sportsmanship in this! Just sickening cruelty... you should be ashamed of yourselves!!!
Tom Briars, Wednesday, 10 June 2009
Dont you just love these tired old chestnuts that hunt supporters come up with : eg 'Townies' simply dont understand the countryside, or have you ever seen what a fox does to a chicken? It is all so patronising and dishonest. I would have far more respect for these scumbags if they spoke the truth and said " We hunt animals because we enjoy it, and part of that enjoyment comes from the kill"
Maggie, Tuesday, 9 June 2009
Edward can you provide some unrefutable evidence to back up your claim that most objectors are urban dwellers? I doubt it, I'm sure being a hunt supporter you'll rely on anecdotes and yarns handed down from the men in red. I'm a country dweller and object to fox hunting because of the despicable cruelty involved. If you look a little closer you will in fact find a good percentage of the hunt actually live and work in the city and pop down to play at being countryside dwellers of a weekend to get their sadistic jollies! At least that's the case where I live.
Edward, Monday, 8 June 2009
I believe in our Freedoms and Liberties and I think it's wrong for a minority of people who have little to do with the countryside, to prevent another minority of people exercising a tradition which they have always had a right to. The objectors are overwhelmingly urban dwellers.
goldfish, Monday, 1 June 2009
i understand the need for vermin control. But why not have a trained marksman to shoot foxes if they are that much of a problem. I don't subscribe to this idea that the hounds can do the job in a much quicker fashion. i don't disaprove of hunting. i just find the pomp and pagentry a bit over the top to hunt such a small beastie
Maggie, Monday, 1 June 2009
John - please produce visual proof that foxes take piglets and lambs. So far I've found none and I've done a hell of a lot of looking. The only 'proof' (I use that term very loosely in terms of fox hunting) is anecdotal yarns and a few scavenged corpses which likely died anyway due to birth defects, and / or poor farm husbandry. Let's face it if a fox is able to get into a coup of chickens then the husbandry isn't particularly good is it. And don't lecture me - my grandparents lost their entire poultry to a fox one winter - did we hate it? No because it did a natural thing (no fox hunting is not natural- in fact the turning on the head of nature), and our coup was sh*t. Therefore our fault. It also did not go on a killing spree because the coup wasn't closed in over head and the rest of the flock could escape into fox proof nesting boxes - (yes gasps all round IT IS POSSIBLE - I know amazing isn't it!!!!!)it simply came back each night and took one - we watched it at work. So therefore the fox isn't the evil, mas*acrist you'd have us believe.
Maggie, Monday, 1 June 2009
Mark - I couldn't agree more!! I've been saying the same thing on various forums and been lambasted but you are right. The same sentiment sthat underpin foxhunting - I.e something is vermin, it is deterimental, I am better than it and therefore have the right and duty to kill it are exactly the sentiments that underpinned every attrocity you have mentioned and the list goes on! If people can't see that they are fools undoubtedly.
Nan Beckett, Monday, 1 June 2009
Hunting a birthright? How utterly ridiculous! It is a vile activity and I can fully make a connection with what Mark and Harry have said also. Is it not common practise for a new member of the hunt to have a bloodied heart rubbed across their face after witnessing their first kill? For other members to take home brushes and heads to be mounted on their walls as trophies? Google Ilsa Koch - she was fond of collecting fleshy souvenirs also. As did Idi Amin. Are you familiar with the 'bagging' practise regularly employed by terrier men? Capturing a fox , before ham-stringing or breaking it's jaw before bundling the unfortunate creature into a sack and releasing it during the hunt if picking are slim. Google the Cheka - they enjoyed torturing those who wouldn't play ball. Hunters routinely intimidate, persecute, verbally and physically abuse those who oppose and stand up against their activites.
John, Sunday, 31 May 2009
Harry how on earth can you compare eradication of vermin in the same light as persecution and systematic termination of vast sections of human life and compare rural communities in the same light as dictators that destroyed so many?
Harry, Sunday, 31 May 2009
Peverse tyrants enjoying persecuting and torturing others - Mark you've hit the nail on the head there mate!
John, Sunday, 31 May 2009
To Lisa
Why do you feel that you need to use words to make you seem more intelligent than others, more normal people would use the words "Rabbit" or Hare". I would ask you to provide links to these studies that have time and again etc. All that I can find is proof that foxes do indeed cause mortalities from Piglets through to Chickens and onwards. For the record I don't live in Cornwall, not all counties have the same issues; you don't have enough water we have to many foxes.
Lisa Shelby, Sunday, 31 May 2009
To John,
If it wasn't for foxes farmers would have an even bigger problem with rabbits and hares. Studies have proven time and time again that lagomorphs account for over 90% of their diet in the country. For the record I live in Cornwall....
John, Saturday, 30 May 2009
Goodness me, I do wonder how many of you very sparkly people live anywhere near the countryside. Ever seen a fox kill everything in sight? Probably not. Nature needs to be controlled to some extent. Rabbits regularly clear fields of crop, not a problem you say, lets import from somewhere else, how environmentally friendly. Just because you lovely people say it is wrong doesn't make it so. It is so easy to join the club and call everyone in the countryside or members of the CLA fools, but it is us that feed you, please do not forget.
Kay, Friday, 29 May 2009
All animals have a place in nature and it is only the interference of man that ruins the ecology of the planet. As stated previously I believe, foxes have their niche in keeping down the numbers of rats, mice, rabbits. Foxes would not breed to the point of saturating the country, they naturally breed more when prey is plentiful and less when prey is scarce, as do wolves. We need predators to keep a balance in nature, but humans are not natural predators of foxes.... We do not eat them. Killing for pleasure is sick and humans are the only animal that does it.
Mark, Friday, 29 May 2009
To those who believe foxes are pests:
Lenin thought the clergy were pests.
Stalin thought the Intelligentsia were pests.
Hitler thought the Jews were pests.
Saddam Hussein thought the Kurds were pests.
Time to consider indeed!
Jason Kirby, Thursday, 28 May 2009
Since when has anyone had the birthright to indulge in torture, murder.... all in the name of sport. Yes one fox, hundreds of dogs and spineless humans on hourses... fair anyone?
DAVE MITCHELL, Wednesday, 27 May 2009
The Countryside Alliance are nothing more than a bunch of mindless thugs. What greater perversion could there be than getting your jollies from watching a creature tormented, terrified and mutilated?
Maggie, Wednesday, 27 May 2009
Yep nature is quite apt at keeping numbers under control. The whole 'vermin' concept is something bandied about by the mounted men in red and believed by the farmers who support them - a way for the hunt to ensure that they can continue to get their jollies by creating a fear of the fox among the people with the power to tell them to get stuffed! As I've said before they'd be doing British farmer far more good if they got their bots off their horses and lobbied Tescos to sell more British stuff and the Eu to create better rules for our farmers - but no instead they think of their own enjoyment and put that first. The fox is so low down the list of threats to the farming industry it's not true! In fact there isn't even concrete evidence that foxes take live lambs!
Rob, Tuesday, 26 May 2009
They say they do it for pest control and then introduce more foxes by breeding to hunt, also if the dominant vixen is killed then all the subordinates have free reign to mate which produces more foxes, a wildlife officer told me that one and i trust his views cos hes spent 25 years working with foxes
Historian, Monday, 25 May 2009
The Red Fox was never a very populous animal in the british isles until 200-300 years ago when may were trapped and introduced in larger numbers from scandanavia so that land owners could hunt them easier.
Maggie, Monday, 25 May 2009
To Rabbitter - your argument is ridiculous - so it's in a dog's nature to kill a fox -but we still have to train them because we don't want them acting like wild dogs? WTF - complete contradiction. But coming from a fox hunter why doesn't that surprise me - your whole ethos is a complete contradiction of nature itself!
Pete, Sunday, 24 May 2009
Brutality. I don't know what it is about humans that make us think we have more of a right to the world than any other species. The reality is that if any one species is a pest it is us. It is us that pollute the planet, it is us that drop food everywhere and then complain there are too many rats and mice. It is us that allow half the world to starve while the rest are throwing food away. I have seen more than enough evidence to be sure that we are far from the only species that shows emotion, love, aptitude and imagination. Fox hunting is unnecessary and this has been proven by it being banned. Now, they simply use scent covered rags - the countryside hasn't fallen to ruin as certain biased individuals with an agenda suggested it would - nor has it become over run with foxes. Humans have only been around for a fraction of the time the planet and it's natural environment has been in existence. It did fine before us, and it will do fine if we ever become extinct. We need to understand that we have no more right to be here than any other species in existence.
Ryan, Sunday, 24 May 2009
I think "Brutality" is an accurate description of foxhunting. I was born and live in the country, but the Countryside Alliance do not represent my views whatsoever.
Lisa Shelby, Saturday, 23 May 2009
Rabbiter, perhaps with the £100 to your name you should invest in some books and educate yourself. Foxes belong to the Canidae family, together with wolves, coyotes, etc.
As an aside, I find it telling how very few members of the hunting set are brave enough to post under their actual name...
Cormac Spencer, Friday, 22 May 2009
Rabbiter. Do shut up. Pest is a subjective term, secondly those dogs do not naturally want to attack foxes, there is no precedent to suggest that in canine history even pre domestic canines. The act itself is barbaric and disgusting. The people who gain a kick pathetic
Toby, Thursday, 21 May 2009
I am Devonshire born and bred. My family runs a working farm. I am opposed to foxhunting, together with many fellow country folk.
Vic, Wednesday, 20 May 2009
Stop pretending it's an elaborate form of pest control, call a spade a spade, and get comfortable with the idea that it's dressing up and hunting animals for fun. Do whatever you fancy, but cease and desist in this ridiculously patronising notion that you're doing the countryside a favour. Otherwise, it's your own tradition to do with as you will.
rabbiter, Wednesday, 20 May 2009
maggie.
you are wrong, most dogs show a venomous attitude towards foxes, as they would in nature, they do not need training, but a young pup can be a fragile thing, and if you want a dog that will take fox regularly you have to set him/her up for victory. i know more about the training of lurchers than i do the training of hounds. now to most of you that do not own a working dog, you will have to look at it from our point of view, we rely on our dogs to keep our permission to hunt on other peoples land, also some of us make a living from it, therefor a dog is important, and if it doesn't do the job then it is simply one more drain on our resources, if you get a dog from a pup you will do everything to make sure that it makes the grade. taking foxes needs a dog to be a brave one as the fox can bite back. and a young dog can expect to be bitten once or twice, but you do not want a dog that can simply take bites and then battle away with the fox, you want a dog that has no fear at all, ploughs in and kills the fox before it has stopped moving. this is what makes it humane, the dog has to really want to do it, and if you had ever seen a green lurcher that has never seen a fox, pulling hard on the slip and quivering with anticipation then you would rethink that ridiculous comment about it not being in there nature.
we do not want our dogs to act like wild animals. wild animals avoid confrontation and injury as they have no way of getting patched up, we can treat a dog that has been bitten, and depending on the breed they will handle the pain in different ways, a terrier cross for instance will barely know it has been bitten, whereas a deerhound cross might whine about it for a couple of seconds, but it rarely stops them doing the job since a seasoned dog is so keen to tackle a fox that you cannot possibly call him off, no matter how good your training... nature takes over.
please do not try and sound as though you know anything about dogs other than what you have read in articles by anti's and pet owner guides. also a fox is vulpine, not canine. of course in nature, were there no humans there would not be a pack hunting another carnivore. but humans are here, we have destroyed the balance of nature and it is up to some of us, the responsible ones to look past the squeamish views of townies and face the responsibility to maintain the countryside as best we can, we have been doing it for centuries, maybe you should leave it to us.
rabbiter, Wednesday, 20 May 2009
Stupid question, birthright and brutality are both the wrong words, I live in a terraced house and have under a hundred pounds to my name, I do not consider it a birthright to hunt foxes, but I consider it the right of people who know the land and work the land, to control pests in whatever way they please, personally i don't care about the traditional hunt, simply because I generally have no patience with toffs, not that they all are, but that is the stereotype. Instead I support it because it is the focal point of the ban which affects many more people than traditional fox hunters. the pest controllers who have worked dogs all there lives, and KNOW it to be a humane and effective way of dealing with foxes, also gamekeepers and farmers that own livestock guardian dogs, this law has criminalised good honest hard working people. It is a shame that British legislation has taken such a fall, it was long considered the best in the world, and now we are banning people from allowing dogs to be dogs. Yes, we all enjoy hunting and many will not understand that, you cannot understand it if you have never been hunting. all types of hunting are addictive and in my opinion it is simply because it is in our nature. This ban is as much of a joke as breed specific legislation. which did nothing to stop dog fighters, but a hell of a lot to a breed of dog, which for the most part was innocent. Thankfully fox hunters have easily adapted to drag hunting and hunting has got more support than ever. most people that i have talked to are pretty neutral, the odd hardcore anti that I come across generally doesn't even know what a lurcher is, and these are the people that our government listened to. These are the people that would have us all eating nothing but fruit, and never administering pest control of any kind. face up to the facts people, if you eat...anything, something has died to get it on your plate, stop making it harder for the people that work the land FOR YOU.
Basil Bushey, Wednesday, 20 May 2009
As for the argument of 40 hounds to 1 fox yes that’s true. Please consider this, If I send 40 people from Enfield (who were only allowed to use their sense of smell) to chase 1 person in Croydon who had lived there for a long enough time they would easily be able to get away as they have local knowledge, know all the shortcuts and know where to hide! Hounds used to hunt foxes use only their sense of smell to catch their quarry!
Greg St Albans, Wednesday, 20 May 2009
People who have spend their lives in the town or cities unfortunately do not understand the way the people out in the sticks. Hunting keeps the fox numbers down without shooting or putting down poison, keeps people in jobs and heck if we carry on eroding our history & tradition we will end up in all sorts of bother.
David MRCVS, Wednesday, 20 May 2009
Samantha Wragg, as a surgeon specialising in wild care I can categorically state that post mortems rarely show damage to the cervical vertebrae. As with all pack animals, hounds bring down their prey by a series of bites and tears and target the abdominal region.
Han, Tuesday, 19 May 2009
Hi can you all take a moment to think what is happening to these dogs now. Most of them are getting put down for the sake of one rabbit or hare which most farmers will poison anyway - an extremly painful death.
Most of the time no animals are killed its just a sport and if the animal is kiiled then its fed to the dogs!
Jon Savage, Tuesday, 19 May 2009
The likes of the Countryside Alliance choose to refer to hunting as 'Field Sport' because they think this makes their disgusting pastime sound like a pleasant harmless pursuit. The truth is that you cannot take the killing out of hunting. Hunting is simply KILLING FOR FUN! Full Stop!
roger kent, Tuesday, 19 May 2009
Nothing but sadistic blood-lust
Sarah, Tuesday, 19 May 2009
Just to comment on the response to 'what foxes do to Livestock' - I would liek to point out that this is in fact nature and is what foxes do! Yes they are a pest but if there are adequate measures & barriers put in place then these issues are avoidable. Growing up on a farm, I understand the mess they create but also respect that is their nature.
To every pro-hunter out there, why cant you embrace drag hunting? Exactly the same as hunting but a fox does not get killed as the dogs follow a scent which is controlled by a person. Everyone still has their fun, horses & dogs get their exercise, & the riders can be as pretentious (or not) as they want to be, discussing family crests/land etc.
The main point im tryng to make is that hunts can still operate in relatively the same way, without the unecessary cruelty & foxes are left to mother natures devices.
Samantha Wragg, Tuesday, 19 May 2009
You cannot judge what you have not judged. It is not brutality when you know what foxes do to livestock. Is trapping or shooting really an alternative "humane" way to kill foxes? What alot of people do not realise is that the death of a fox by a hound is instant; the dogs break its neck in seconds, compared to being caught in a trap or being shot which causes a long and painful bleeding to death (would you wish that upon anyone let alone an animal). It is not necessarily a birthright as anyone can hunt, you do not have to be a snob, or wealthy to enjoy this sport just understand it. Which is the one thing that activists conviniently do not explain. Farmers livelihoods are often distroyed by the over breeding of foxes, which at the end of the day are vermin.
robin pappas, Monday, 18 May 2009
not birthright, just cruel and mindless 'tradition,' a sick definition of sport - time to evolve out of pursuits which involve the harming of another for fun - this kind of 'entertainment' has always been a distraction from the real business of making one's life count in a meaningful way.
Zizi, Sunday, 17 May 2009
Birthright???? Are you folks kidding? If people had the "birthright" to do everything they consider to be their right, by "tradition" then we would still have sanctioned slavery, children working in coalmines and gladiators fighting for their lives against lions! Women would never be entitled to vote, drive or own property, as is unfortunately, still the case in many unevolved, barbaric societies. Are these "entitlements" or "birthrights" that any sane, civilized or educated person could justify??? The fox hunt is another one of these anachronisms, that has no place in modern society. It is time to toss this one into the dustbin of history, along with public hangings and freaks in traveling circuses.
Nick C, Sunday, 17 May 2009
How can tearing appart a living being not be considered brutality.
Seanio, Sunday, 17 May 2009
I went along to watch this spectacle with a friend once-it wasnt really my thing but I thought I would take a look-nothing happened -some (not all) of the people were downright snobs-and as in the stereotype, they were lawyers, police chiefs, judges., (Masons) and a few 'foxy' women, who mainly sit on their horse talking Vogue and drinking from hip flasks. The dogs were up for it and there were some comedy moments with them. No fox found. Cubbing is a filthy business though whether that is a seperate issue Im not sure.
its not really a true tradition but it is nearly 300 years old-that doesnt make it a tradition. Tradition is for example fighting in English High Streets and second rate government- these have been around in this country much longer than fox hunting.
I think that to ban it is a bandwagon policy,a side issue, it is neither relevant or important or shouldnt be, and distracts nicely as an issue when a government is performing badly.
Saffron Innes Shaw, Sunday, 17 May 2009
Brutality. According to research data, pre ban, an average of 15,000 foxes were killed annually by the hunt. How can one fox being pitched against a pack of 40 hounds in any way be considered sporting? If a gang of 40 people attacked a lone individual it would make headline news and the whole country would be up in arms about it.
Ronnie Lee, Saturday, 16 May 2009
In response to Tony's comment 'Is the "justifiable cruelty" poll about foxes ripping limbs from our chickens on a regular basis?' - well, isn't that what human beings do on a regular basis? Human beings have the choice to be vegetarian and, therefore, should be. Foxes don't have that choice. So if you eat chicken, don't be so hypocritical as to criticise foxes for doing so.
Simon, Saturday, 16 May 2009
I consider it barbarian, however, if they are by birth entitled to this kind of entertainment, why not turn it into some paintball show?
Pleasure of the hunt, without the brutality.
Adrian Appley, Friday, 15 May 2009
No-one has the right to torture animals because of tradition or so-called birthright. Those who get pleasure out of seeing our fellow beings tortured are sick perverts and nothing less. It is high time people saw blood sports for the vile persuits they are and totally rejected them just as decent people do.
Jill, Friday, 15 May 2009
Tony are you talking about the very same chickens which are strung up alive by their ankles on a moving conveyer belt before being beheaded for your profit?
Tony, Friday, 15 May 2009
Is the "justifiable cruelty" poll about foxes ripping limbs from our chickens on a regular basis?
Maggie, Thursday, 14 May 2009
Tom that article doesn't actually surprise me. The fact that the pups have to be taught to kill a fox by a human being stands testiment to the fact that fox hunting with hounds has absolutely no place in nature, and is in fact an abomination in that carnivores of the same family are set against each other in a mockery of a natural process which would undoubtedly involve the pursuit of a large herbivorous creature. Any death among predators would be rare in comparison, as it would be due to competition rather than a 'hunt' and would undoubtedly take place swiftly at the site of a kill, and almost certainly would not involved prolonged chases as the pack would be too busy expending energy needed to bring down the large herbivores needed to feed the pack.
Tom, Wednesday, 13 May 2009
Typical party spiel on natural selection! Hunting is carefully and coldly premeditated as this extract from a letter by the late Robert Churchwood, a Master Of The Hounds, attests:
"We made for the small wood where the Master had been informed there was a litter of cubs. First of all he ordered the 30 or so people out that morning to surround the wood. Then he sent hounds and hunt staff into the thickets inside the circle of waiting horsemen and women.
At first nothing happened. Then the hounds baying told us that the litter had been found. I waited to see what happened.
As the cubs were frightened away from their mother they ran desperately out of the wood, only to be frightened back into the very jaws of the hounds.
It was nothing more than a circle of death. People on horseback holloaed at the top of their voices, flapped their reins and banged the sides of their leather saddles with their hunting crops.
They set up such an unholy clamour that the second the frightened cub ran out of his home and, as he thought he was out of danger, he was frightened back.
Hounds ate every cub.
At one stage I was disgusted to see the pups whipped away from the older hounds and a fox cub chased into their inexpert mouths by the Masters command of, 'Let the pups have that one.'
It was a terrible scene. The pups, lacking the experience of the older hounds, were not quite sure how to deal with the cub.
They bit the cub and were bitten back. They treated it as both something to kill and something to play with. There was a sordid scuffle in which fur, flesh and blood flew in all directions.
After what seemed like an hour there was nothing left of the cub. The pups looked up proudly, wagging their sterns and looked for praise from their master.
This was the pups education.
Let me say this blunty from my 40 years experience of the sport: The main reason for cubbing is to educate the young hounds by letting them eat live cubs"
andrew, Tuesday, 12 May 2009
Whether you hunt or not the facts are the same. In general hounds will only be able to catch - and therefore kill- the sick, lame and lazy. Any smart, healthy fox would be very unlucky to get caught. Sadly for the fox our local hunt is no longer allowed to chase foxes so we now shoot them, this is by far the most efficient method although it shows no natural selection and the fox is not always dispatched as cleanly as we would like. So irrelevant of your opinion of hunting (and I don't) the only thing to suffer from a hunting ban is the fox population.
Twigley, Monday, 11 May 2009
I'm not sure that mindless violence excercised against a small canine, or rodent or lagomorph by a pack of carnivorous trained hunter-killers is a birthright.
Indeed. Whether you like doing it or not - you'd be hard pressed to say that it wasn't brutal.
Why don't you pro fox hunting people admit it - you do it because you like it. You like the chase with all the hounds. You like the speed. The horses' gallop. The foxes fear. The short squeak, maybe a snarl before it is torn flesh from bone in a hopelessly one sided contest. Let's be honest about what you like to do. And just admit it. You like to do it.
Saul, Monday, 11 May 2009
Fox hunters fall into the same category as rapists, pedophiles and child killers. There's nothing to debate here, it's just sickos getting their twisted kicks regardless of who or what suffers. They're a stain on humanity. Burn them all. Then burn them again just to be sure.
Gail, Friday, 8 May 2009
I'm sure if roles were reverse the people and their "birthright" would not want someone hunting them down, chasing causing them incredible stress and fear and then ultimately murdering them... always put yourself in others shoes, regardless of species.
Maggie, Friday, 8 May 2009
Ginnie and Allie - I agree it is absolutely disgusting. Really is not part of an evolved society. Although most hunters will deny any involvement with terrier men and in the next breath claim that they still dig out if the farmer asks them to do so - in other words the majority of the time.
Maggie, Friday, 8 May 2009
Caroline Pitcher - well oh my god - you've just realised that it's your responsibility to actually ensure your pets are safe - I am astounded. Of course you have to pen them in - and that is actually better for the hens welfare if they feel safe, and most probably more natural anyway. I take it hens in the wild would find saftey in numbers and wouldn't be wandering about at night anyway. I really can't believe you think a fox eating something that you've effectively put out for them is a problem.
It was your fault your son's chickens were eaten and he became upset - however I'm sure he is quite happy to also sit down to a nice roast chicken dinner of a weekend - at least now he realises that things do die to feed others. My grandparents lost all their chickens and ducks in a similar way - entirely their fault, the coup was rubbish and didn't even have a cover on it. Tough
For sara, Friday, 8 May 2009
Yawn- read some books. Fox hunting has no role in controlling the fox population and the town v country angle is getting very boring. plenty of people in the country do not agree with hunting, plenty of people in cities agree with it. Don't tell me that all country folk are experts in fox ecology as the numerous posts above clearly show it is not the case.
Ginny, Friday, 8 May 2009
My comment is a follow on to Allie's post. Terrier Men also hamstring "baggies" to turn them lame and break their jaws so they can't defend themselves against the dogs. Hunting is despicable and the ban must stand.
DNS Digger, Thursday, 7 May 2009
It makes me laugh that you are all so predictable and that you jumped in and commented exactly in your normal stereotypes.
Can none of you see that you are being manipulated by advertising and the reactions are just what they wanted.
Most of you really are not very conscious of the way your thoughts are controlled by media, are you?
This campaign is run by CBS Outdoor, registered via their ISP, Titan Internet.
I suggest we all write to them and ask them who is paying and why. However, given the note below the comments box which says ("I am happy for Time To Consider to use my comment on this site and on London Underground as part of this campaign.") I suspect it is London Underground just playing with your heads in a rather lame copy of an excellent airport advertising campaign by HSBC last year.
Allie, Thursday, 7 May 2009
I notice there is little mention of the vile role played by terriermen on this forum. From blocking badger sets and rabbit burrows to erecting temporary electric fencing, they cause wide spread mayhem in the countryside they claim to love. It's not unusual for them to trap a fox the night before a hunt (to bag it and release it on the day) and slash it's paw pads so the hounds have a blood scent to follow or sever it's archilles.
Allie-In Response To Caroline Pitcher, Thursday, 7 May 2009
Caroline, in 20 years I have never lost any stock to a fox. However, I have lost a cat to a rampaging pack of hounds.
Alien, Thursday, 7 May 2009
To pro-hunting, foxes hunt small animal for food and it's totally natural life but not people with the hound pack out for fun. Maybe it needs new generation to solve this conflict. It's very tiring to argue with people who just selfish but deviate that they do it for others
Manda, Wednesday, 6 May 2009
This is cle arly about the soc ial clas s di vision and not hun ting.
Yes who is payi ng for this? Governme nt likely?
Foxgun Tom, Wednesday, 6 May 2009
Excuse my ignorance, but is this exercise a campaign or a poll? for a few weeks now the pro'hunting lobbyists have been in the majority if its a poll? but it clearly states at the bottom of the page its a campaign! If it is a campaign then a campaign strategy has obviously been worked out, for or against? Can I ask the organisers of this campaign a clear and concise question, are they in support of hunting or not ? and how will they use this information? Can I have a direct answer please from the organisers??
Still Hunting
Tom Chalmers (aka) Foxgun Tom
N Reed, Wednesday, 6 May 2009
What a ridiculous survey. Of course, it is neither, it is a sociable activity which anyone can enjoy, not just an elite as you suggest.
Caroline Pitcher, Wednesday, 6 May 2009
Having had my 12 year old sons flock of 24 rare breed hens picked off one by one by a fox - and seen his misery when he found the remains, I wish our local hunt was allowed to control the fox population as in the past. We now have to pen the hens in to a small area. The reality is that free range means free meals in the countryside without fox control.
The Manc, Tuesday, 5 May 2009
Use to love that Tetley's Bitter. Never considered that it had anything to do with pest control?
Olot, Tuesday, 5 May 2009
Estos dias atrás he estado en London y he visto los carteles de "Time to Consider". Nosotros en España tambien tenemos tradiciones crueles como las corridas de toros y otras muchas "tradiciones" que me parecen inmorales.
Creo que el daño que hacemos a cualquier ser animal, vegetal o a la tierra misma de alguna manera nos lo hacemos a nosotros mismos y tarde o temprano pagamos las consecuencias multiplicadas.
Anya Temperley, Tuesday, 5 May 2009
Maggie - it just goes to show what a ghastly amount of old tripe they like to spout and demonstrates alarmingly poor husbandry on the farmers part.
All those defending fox hunting as a fast, efficient, humane form of 'pest control', science and statistics are not on your side.
A lone fox is frequently pursued on rough terrain for over an hour by a slathering pack of hounds and riders. Numerous independent studies, both here and internationally, have confirmed severe physiological effects on the body as a result of the chase alone. Haemorrhage of the heart and lungs. Congestion of the kidneys. A breakdown of muscle tissue and severe brain damage. Those who meet with the jaws of the pack have their flesh ripped from their bones, their soft under belly punctured and their intestines ripped out whilst they scream and fight for their lives.
Maggie, Monday, 4 May 2009
AP - I'll look out for latex glove clad foxes with their paws up sheep's bums then on my nightly stroll tonight! Or perhaps I'll see one with it a calf 5 times it's size stowed under its armpit. Somehow I don't think fox damage is particularly high on the 'serious threats to our nation' agenda at the moment. Oh my god since the ban we must have become some dark land of the foxes! Anyone see 'Live at the Apollo' this week - classic , satyrical and yet bang on look at the hysteria whipped up by the hunting fraternity!
AP, Monday, 4 May 2009
If people had any idea of the damages foxes cause, they would support fox hunting. It is a necessary, efficient and traditional form of pest contro
Maggie, Monday, 4 May 2009
Anya - completely agree, a lot of things foxes are accused of are absolutely ridiculous - I recently watched a clip of men out lamping at night. They came across a sheep lying on it's side with most of it's intestines protruding out of it's rectum. It had quite obviously suffered a rectal prolapse and been left there to get on with it (they found another dead sheep which had quite obviously been there for days and not been found ot removed by the farmer) these guys made a comment along the lines of 'now people can see what a fox is capable off' - I mean are we now supposed to believe that a fox is capable of turning an adult sheep on its side, keeping it there, while it snaps on some surgical gloves, sticks it's paw up the sheep's backside and pulls out its intestines! Absolute sensationalist rubbish! To top it off, while they were chuntering about how 'evil' foxes were, they left the sheep like that, still alive to suffer for god knows how long, despite having guns and the ability to put it out of its misery! Astounding stupidity and hypocrisy.
Anya Temperley, Monday, 4 May 2009
British foxes weigh between 10 and 14 pounds. The birth weight of the average calf is 100 pounds. Pudsey, do the math!
to russ, Sunday, 3 May 2009
i agree!!!! why be veggie and actively seek out food that looks like meat!!!!! e.g sausages and burgers why not make them completely different!!!!!
pudsey, Sunday, 3 May 2009
who killed the foxes natural predators? same story again isnt it? only this was for us to survive without fear, we should never of caused extinction i completely agree and i think this is something hunts will always have to be carefull of never to threaten the existence of a species. personally im more worried about my few remaining pet chickens, one pet duck and the remaining poor little lambs than one greedy fox. we have some one near me that releases city foxes and a couple weeks ago one of these foxes stood its ground to me whilst i raced to get my chicken that was still alive out of its mouth fortunately my dogs high speed persuit done the job, a couple days later a neighbour was checking a cow that was calving to find a fox behind it grabbing at the calve on its way out city foxes dont belong here and they are killed very quickly normally after being struck by a car a few days before and by bleeding to death shame someone doesnt get the idea and be more humane.
Nicholas Bazely, Saturday, 2 May 2009
I am Sickened that people would even dare to say Hunting is a birthright. Hunting is a horrifying sport, if you can even call it that, in which an innocent animal is hunted down by a bunch of snot nosed cowards on horses! Animal Cruelty is illegal, and Hunting is one and the same!
Maggie, Friday, 1 May 2009
Interesting - language impairments have actually been linked to offending and reoffending rates in this country
Russ, Friday, 1 May 2009
Kill animals for food. That could also apply to some vegetarians. By the way, why does vegetarian food in Tescos look like bacon?
Interesting, Friday, 1 May 2009
I am starting to see a direct corollation between the inability to read and write in English, and the need to kill animals for fun and break the law. Hmmmmm.
Maggie, Friday, 1 May 2009
Not too far away - all of your points are correct. Many even admit publically to breaking the law and therefore being guilty of criminal activity. If they can't stay within the law, which let's face it went extremely easy on them, then let's make it tougher I say.
To Not Too Far Away, Friday, 1 May 2009
Firstly, it's rather amusing that you don't appear to see the irony that you, a lone individual, was set upon and attacked by a gang/pack whilst minding your own business. Secondly, hilarious that you are finding fault with the police for collaring you for lamping. Fox hunters have been breaking the law for years...
*Trespassing on to land and property where they are known to be unwelcome, causing no end of damage with their horses and packs.
*Taking puerile and vindictive revenge against those who oppose them-often involving criminal damage.
*Blocking badger sets
*Attacking hunt monitors
Not to mention flagrantly breaking the Hunting Act!
Ginty, Thursday, 30 April 2009
if hunting was going to wipe out foxes after 300 years or more there would be none left by now,and they get killed many other ways to. we keep them alive u tickooooooossss. so whats your point...
sado;s waste of do gooders money your fighting a lost couse go an save the whale and leave us contented pepole alone.
roll on next season
HAPPY HUNTING!!!
jane, Thursday, 30 April 2009
birthright
Kristen, Thursday, 30 April 2009
Roger - all hunts catch the old and infirm???!!! - urm aprt from the hunts that dig out and the hunts that go cubbing in autumn when the young and the viable are torn apart. Once again your contradictions are astounding. As for the townies 'not having seen a baby lamb being eaten as it's born' - I doubt many farmers have witnessed that either or there would be a myriad of video evidence to prove that foxes actually kill lambs - who hasn't got a mobile with a video taking facility these days? - and to be honest if the farmer has seen a fox trying to eat a lamb being born and stood around doing nothing to prevent it tough. You see once again your claims really dont ring true and certainly can't be verified by concrete evidence. Once again you are subscribing to the myth and unfounded anecdotes bandied about by the hunting fraternity in order to make farmers think the fox is their number one enemy and therefore grant them access to their land. In the meantime the farmers REAL enemies - the EU and Tescos are busy putting some of the final nails into British farmers' coffins. Fools - well what goes around comes around.
Thomas, Thursday, 30 April 2009
As a city dweller, I know little about hunting. Perhaps counter intuitive but hunting people always seem to be at peace with what they do. A quick read of the paper this morning would show you that there are few people at peace with themselves in a city. It may not be a birthright but it does less harm than young city dwellers do to each other and that is where are focus should be - not on something we are not qualified to comment on. A birthright perhaps is a right to live in a city where I am not worried about what will happen to my young children today.
Roger, Thursday, 30 April 2009
Hunting has nothing to do with birthright. The average city dweller enjoying their roast lamb on Sunday lunch time has not seen a fox eating a baby lamb as it is being born. All hunts, hunting with hounds catch the the old and infirm. The young and healthy fox's live and kill another day.
Mark, Thursday, 30 April 2009
Maggie - remember we talking about people who consider having a a bloodied/excrement covered brush smeared over their faces a glorious coming of age moment.
Mark, Thursday, 30 April 2009
Eddie S - Re: your comment: "At the moment we should all be happy as the sun is shining and the hunting season is over until the Autumn"
You're sweeping cub hunting under the carpet there! Oh sorry, I forgot, that's hush hush in the hunting fraternity. Barely weaned cubs being flushed from their earth's by terriers before having their entrails ripped out by the hound pack. I understand why they want to keep that quiet!!
To Pudsey, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
Who killed the foxes natural predators? That's right Hunters did.
For Andrew, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
The fact that the picture showing a group of showjumpers on their way to a competiton has been mentioned approximately 20 times now and that indicates that pro hunters neither listen or read other peoples points of views. Ignorance? Looked in the mirror lately?
Andrew, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
The fact that the photograph shows a group of show-jumpers on their way to a competition indicates the astonishing level of ignorance about the reality of hunting displayed by the majority of people in our increasingly urban country...
pudsey, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
this is all sooooo narrow minded!!!! it is not wrong it purifies the fox population since the ban i have seen so many foxes slowly and painfully dying of diseases and illnesses directly caused by a boom in population numbers. we are the only natural predators of foxes as with all animals the competition for food, nowdays being farm animals rather than prey, has always and always will drive predators to kill any others hunting the same food. hunts that let the death of a fox drag on are to blame not the ones that dispatch it immediately. the healthy foxes are to cunning and fast to be caught. a dogs naturall instinct makes it kill whatever it has caught fast not like a cat who will toy with it. hunting has been happening for so long in this country for many there is no other way of life and their heart fills with pride at a meet, its something you can guaruntee your ancestors done hundreds of years before you in the same method and the same clothing there are so many more things in this world that are far worse for example if you have a cow that is pregnant and she reacts to two tb tests they will take her, kill her, whilst the calf is inside then after all that they will grow cultures and say oh sorry she didnt have it!!! compensation does not even begin to stop such heart ache for the people who raised this animal. consider priorities before pointing the finger at the public for being cruel, look at the people pulling the strings.
For Raymond Barry, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
Good point but then wouldn't there be a shortage in bugs and worms?
Raymond Barry, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
As protection of wildlife, better that all cats be put down and we'd be many milions of songbirds better off.
Michael, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
Fox hunting has long been very poorly understood by most people; sometimes even by participants and others involved but particularly by the majority who are not.
The original rationale was the protection of livestock and their young - whether with four legged or fowl - and hence the wellbeing of those who depended upon them.
To control the numbers and locations of foxes and other predators was and is still a necessity. Those who have pursued this objective - whether in days of old or now - have hardly been confined to "titled toffs" or anyone with some kind of "birthright" but have included any and all in the rural community as a whole whose livelihoods (and in the past their survival) were and/or are thus threatened by predators including foxes.
The fact that this exercise has been allowed to take on the manner of a sport is actually neither here nor there; except that in this guise it might at least have become better organised and maybe more effective.
Furthermore, in the "real" wild - i.e. not simply the managed countryside of our green and pleasant land - foxes and other animals would be - and are - routinely hunted by other predators such as packs of wild dogs. Foxes are evolved, designed and built to deal with this ..... all too well, in fact, in view of how often an entire organised hunt fails to catch the fox.
In addition there is with a hunt no terrible grey area between the fox being caught on the one hand, in which case it is definitely "game over and lights out" in short order, or getting away unscathed on the other. I find this scenario far preferable to the physical pain, suffering and torture endured by a fox who is:
1. Shot, only to still scamper off and spend a protracted period in agony before death;
2. Trapped - which can be as bad a scenario as item 1., above, and foxes have even been know to chew their own leg off in order to free themselves;
3. Gassed - posing similar risks: not as easy and simple as some might have us believe ..... or;
4. Poisoned - posing similar risks again.
5. Not to mention the risks posed to other wildlife and sometimes even people by any and all of items 1 to 4 above.
I doubt that many would advocate the breeding foxes specifically to hunt them purely for sport, but in a scenario wherein there numbers and activities need to be controlled I believe that anyone even thinking of entering the debate on fox hunting must do just that: THINK about the fox and THINK about all of the above.
Eddie S, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
Maggie - I'm gald we agreed on something. Obviously not as the overwhelming majority (in fact we would expect a 99% to unanimous outcome of a referendum) of this country's population consider the acts you mention are defenceless; which is not the case for hunting.
Maggie, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
Agree with your last comment Eddie. However your point on protection of minorities is right to a certain extent, however murderers, rapists and paedophiles, theives, dog fighters, badger baiters, people who get kicks out of torturing animals are thankfully in the minority in this country, and yet we still legislate against their activities because they are subversive and unacceptable in a modern society. Or are you telling me that if they carry out their activities on private property that would be ok?
Eddie S, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
All the comments above clearly demonstrate the difference of opinion on hunting. So, here's my question: who is right? Don't worry, I'll answer that for you: pro hunting
Why? Because we should strive to live in a liberal society that only restricts acts that the overwhelming majority of the population object to. The anti-hunting lobby does not currently reflect the overwhelming majority but seeks to restrict the activities of those who wish to hunt, an activity which takes place on private property. And before you respond by banging on about the Act (nevermind the disgraceful manner in which the legislation was pushed through Parliament by our Government), may I remind you that "hunting" as carried out across the country is generally done so within the law (which is why there have been hardly any prosecutions). Oh, and if you don't agree with my overwhelming majority argument, don't forget that one of a demoncracy's fundamental roles is to protect its minorities and so if pro hunting is a minority (which I am pretty sure it is not) it still deserves protection.
At the moment we should all be happy as the sun is shining and the hunting season is over until the Autumn.
Maggie, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
The above has just been nicely illustrated by the statement of a young pro-hunt member of a 'lift the ban' group on a popular networking site. The statement expressed his wish that every UK town dweller contracts and dies of Mexican flu.
Maggie, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
Mark 'Break him up' is another phrase chanted in a manner that approximates some sort of se*ual gratification. Oh but remember none of them actually enjoy the kill! and the fox is apparently killed instantly!! Hilarious that they think people are still naive enough to believe that. Thankfully the age of everyone having access to education and a world of information has arrived. But you wouldn't think it given some of the claims here - and you're just expected to believe what they say remember, without question - because no one can possibly know as much about the countryside as someone sat on a horse charging about on it (most probably come down from the city anyway to their weekend retreat) or a man that enjoys terrifying wild creatures with a couple of terriers of a weekend. And of course anyone with an opinion that differs from them is of course a townie, jobless, useless, tree hugging, lentil soup eating weirdo. These people are teaching their children that it's ok to tear another living creature limb from limb because it is dirty, worthless vermin and they just happen to feel like doing it (strikingly similar to the insults they tend to levy at anti-hunters showing their hatred isn't just reserved for other animals). Those sentiments are extremely worrying in a modern day society.
Mark, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
What is sporting in hunting nocturnal creatures during the day? Pulling foxes from a bolt hole by their brush and hitting them over the head with a spade to stun them? What is it again hunters enjoy shouting at the hounds; tear 'im, rip 'im, eat 'im
Maggie, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
Lena Bridgewater - that's terrible but doesn't surprise me. I've watched clips of hunters physically as*aulting peaceful sabs - who were literally on a public footpath, he beat both men and the woman on the head with his crop as well as riding into them purposefully. He was from the Essex Fox Hounds. One was caught punching a female protestor in the head when he thought the camera had been turned off, another purposefully rode into a woman standing at the side of the road and broke her shoulder - nice to see they are such peaceful, law-abiding people! Violent people who like to take their aggression out on those smaller than themselves. Makes you wonder if they are right in the head really, afterall horse riding is the one of the leading causes of traumatic brain injury in the UK.
Jon, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
I'm definitely no fox lover - you just have to be criminally insane and need locking up to want to hunt them on a horse and tear them apart with a pack of dogs
Maggie, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
Lauren - you are probably right in the sentiments you expressed. The pro camp are like a bunch of spoilt children who have been told off.
Maggie, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
For Swampy - I completely agree.
Maggie, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
Pembrokshire - so you are saying that you stood by and watched the fox kill several newborn lambs? Or did you really just find them dead and scavenged in the morning? Because if you actually saw the fox taking them and did nothing there and then to try and stop it then what do you expect. However I suspect the second option is more likely.
And no Swampy - I have nothing to do with the advertising agent - antis just have very good, rational arguments - so no need to manipulate anything. You say 'it was just labour pandering to leafy lane londoners' well unfortunately for your cause the majority of the country live in big cities like london, therefore making their opinion count. How dare you suggest that someone who lives in a city does not have the democratic right to have an opinion and have that listened to by the government! Your conceit is remarkable - apparently no one who lives in a town can possibly have the ability to make a rational judgement based on evidence and moral values. Like I said by pandering to the few we are setting ourselves up for a mini dictatorship.
For Swampy, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
I sincerely doubt that Maggie works for the advertising company codegent. They are the people who this site belongs to. No-one whatsoever is modding this site. I note that you fallen for the stereotype that all anti's are lefty pinko tree huggers from the city. Well wake up, because that isn't true. Why dont you stay out of topics you clearly dont have the intelligence to understand, you blinkered fool.
Eris, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
How many foxes are killed? Hundreds, thousands?.Nothing compared to the factory farming conditions & what goes on in abatoirs. Get serious. If people are opposed to cruelty to animals it is in factory farming & abatoirs. Not hunting.
Swampy, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
Maggie, are you "modding" this poll. I really hope you are not editing any of the comments. Its looking that way! Trying to manipulate the outcome no doubt.
By the way it wasn't the majority of the country that voted for the ban it was looney labour pandering to the leafy lane london brigade.
Stay out of topics you do not fully understand!
Jake, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
The most natural way to control and manage the natural fox population is sadly by the use of hounds. They effectively ensure the "survival of the fittest", culling any weak, old and diseased animals and under stringent regulations can only operate during the winter months, Unbelievably, the current legislation allows the indiscriminate shooting of foxes under no guidelines by any individual through out the year including the breeding season when the vixens are often shot in pup. Understandably many people who do not understand hunting, do not approve of what appears to be the indiscrimante killing of foxes, however, it is by far and away the most efficient method of population control and those that do have an understanding of both hunting and the country environment should be left to get on with it.
Jo, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
Survival of the fittest is how a wild population keeps healthy and hunting, unlike other means of controlling foxes, does take out the weak and feeble, leaving the strong to breed.
Foxes do a lot of damage to wildlife especially ground nesting birds and many of those are now endangered so fox numbers MUST be controlled.
liz, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
why are there pictures of show jumpers on this advert....!! I think someone has got their hunting attire wrong and just used pictures of show jumpers to represent the hunt. Oh dear! Anyway, bring back hunting!
Lauren, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
Most people seem to think fox hunting is ok ( its their birthright) and tanks are ok( they're a deterrent)......excuse me, but what is going on here?
What's the point of the website you chicken and beggar loving people? Oh yeah, kill thousands and lets not take the rich people's favourite past time away from them.
pembrokeshire, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
First get the question right, it is not a birthright of anyone, it is a sport enjoyed by many, of all social classes in just the same way as football, rugby, swimming and walking, etc etc ................ although I appreciate some see fox hunting as brutality in the same way that I see street fighting on a Saturday between football fans as barbarian brutality. WHAT HAPPENED TO LIVE AND LET LIVE??
Most of the arguements have been re-kindled above, but I would like to thank the land owners who now allow trailhunting over their ground. I do not know how the foxes are being killed nowadays but it is not by hunting.
I for one lost several newborn lambs to the fox. They were not dead when the fox got them, it killed them - just another form of hunting?
Personally I think more time should be spent enjoying the countryside in which we live and less time moaning about those who do. Just go out and enjoy your sport, whatever it is. Even streetfighting after a football match, if that's what floats your boat.
Lena Bridgewater, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
My in law's own a small holding and several years ago asked the hunt to keep their hounds off of their land. Within several days fox scats had been spread over the windscreen of my mother in laws car and a note pinned under the windscreen wipers telling her to keep out of their business. It's pure brutality and the ban must remain.
Fed up, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
Stupid vindictive law which is unenforceable and has not saved the life of a single fox. Repeal it as soon as possible
(would that our government had spent as much parliamentary time debating our deployment in Iraq and Afghanistan)
Bob Millum, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
60 years hunting sometimes as an amateur whipper in has shown me a lot and one thing I do know this ban is utterly wrong and infringes my human rights. I will continue to follow hounds for as long as I am able to breath.
Daphne Thorne, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
Most important thing in my life after my family. We used to earn our living AND spend our spare time following hounds; now, thanks to government interference, there is no job for my husband, but we still spend our leisure time with hounds.
crossbreed, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
It's a birthright and there shouldn't even be a ban !!!
far to much time is spent on debating this issue,
why is this time not spent on the wars that are going on around the globe ?
Liz, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
Brutality...
There have been well documented cases of bloodied fox corpses being strung from trees, of their decapitated bodies nailed to fences together with hunt party calling cards crowing 'Welcome To the Real Country'.
The day after the hunt act was passed a box filled with the mutilated corpses of fox cubs was delivered the head office of the RSPCA courtsey of the Countryside Alliance. A despicable act of cruelty and a message mocking the Hunt Act. I would like to quote an extract from letter by the founder of The National Fox Welfare Society Martin Hemmington: ' I was called out by a lady who runs an animal sanctuary. For obvious reasons, with livestock like this, she had written to her local hunt and politely asked them not to hunt on or around her land. Two days later, a decapitated fox cub was placed on the lawn next to the picnic area. The first person to see it was her six-year-old son. We went to collect the body and arranged for an autopsy. This revealed that the cub [about four weeks old] had more than 36 bite marks consistent with an attack by a terrier. It had also been hit twice on the back, breaking the spine in two places (all this before death). And then, after death, it was decapitated, moved from the original place of the killing and placed on her lawn! Both the pictures and autopsy results are available if you would like to see them. The only person aware of her letter was the Master of the Hunt to which she wrote. This incident gained no publicity because the lady didn't want any more retribution considering that she had a large number of domestic animals on site. This is just one of many examples in which the hunts send out a warning. Many of these cases involve a dead fox left outside the door or nailed to a tree."
Sadly, these are just a few examples, yet they prove that hunting has never been about protecting livestock (more on that later) It's not about about culling (incidentally and absurdly, it's not unheard of for hunt parts to purposefully breed their own foxes ('bagged foxes') to guarantee a successful day out), it's about the thrill of the kill. Many of the pro hunt arguments are based on myths, the biggest being the destruction of livestock and loss of revenue to farmers. According to studies by Bristol University 's Mammal Department, in Wiltshire, 74.1% of the rural foxes diet was lagomorphs. Rabbits and hares. Ironically the biggest pest of all in agricultural farmering! 6.9% rodents, 11.7% wild birds and the remaining percentage consiting of earthworms, invertebrates, birds eggs and fruit. Less than 5% consisted of large mammals. Also bearing in mind that the average British fox weighs between 12-14 pounds, little more than the average 10 pound house cat, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to deduce that such a minute creature is hardly a threat to a robust ewe. In addition, renowned British field naturalist and BBC wildlife film maker MBE Eric Ashby (late) wrote in his studies re sheep worrying that it was found that foxes are actually attracted to the afterbirth rather than the lambs and sheep themselves. Admittedly birthing casualties were sometimes taken, along with occassional sickly lambs but healthy young and adult sheep were given a wide berth! Ashby, coincidentally, was also a victim of reprisals by his local New Forest Hunt. The most unfortunate myth of all that has come of a result of the Hunt Act is that the health of the fox population has suffered as a result! In the West Country, the 1994 epidemic of sarcoptic mange decimated the fox population. By 2000, it was still less than 10% of what it was pre mange. Hunts rarely pursue a sickly animal. If you have ever encountered a fox suffering from the latter stages of mange you will know that they are barely capable of walking, let alone running. Certainly no thrill in the chase! The final myth that I would like to dispel is the matter of culling, keeping down numbers. The average fox's natural lifespan is 14 years old, the same as a dog - yet 52% never reach their first birthday and 80% do not make it to two. Road traffic, hunting, lamping, snaring and unfortunate accidents, usually involving people, decimate their population. We can't ban cars, we can't erradicate building, growth and expansion but we can erradicate hunting! Until the Hunt Act is stringently enforced and harsher penalties put in place hunting will continue. Attacks on hunt monitors, legitimately going about their employment, will continue. Reprisals against ordinary people who oppose the hunt will continue. Please write to your MP and ask them to push for tighter laws on hunting.
As George Bernard Shaw said, 'The greatest sin towards our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them. That is the essence of inhumanity"
trn, Monday, 27 April 2009
on a good number of places i know our set up is the only reason the gun boys are kept away. i have seen and handled blind and rotting but still alive having been shot. heavy vixens without back legs from snares. foxes riddled with mange and and infection having been dropped out from cities. perminantly lame foxes from long potshots from the lamping brigade all sorts of really nasty stuff and it has upset me deaply- i don't make out to be a saint but to me that suffering is all wrong. i grew up with foxes and hunting and farming and that -all the stuff above which is still legal seems totally insane when compared to the way in which hunting works. and to clarify not all hunting is people in red coats galloping around very publically - most of what is done is quiet, un noticed by passersby and very early in the morning doing specific jobs on specific foxes for specific people by invite. i am sure this site is up to no good but if i can make one person realise the trueth by writing somthing then its been 5 mins well spent. come and learn i say, see what happens and don't listen to people who haven't seen what goes on.
trn, Monday, 27 April 2009
i am up all hours of the day and night looking after the hounds and my girlfriend works like hell making sure our horses are happy as possible.
trn, Monday, 27 April 2009
i won't start throwing towny the word about but what i will say is that there is no one who looks after hounds terriers horses and in a round about sense the fox as a race better than the hunting community.
trn, Monday, 27 April 2009
I work in fox hunting-have done for a long time-hopefully will continue to do for a long time. i'm not a murderer or cruel to animals or sick or a toff of any number of things i have been called over the years.
Chris Maddison, Monday, 27 April 2009
The need to erode another aspect of our heritage is an envy based barrage on the upper classes.
Alas, the gentry of yesteryear are a memory. Hunting is a way of life for those involved from Master to Kennel staff and the villagers surrounding the country ridden over.
I do not hunt and to be brutally honest in my teens I was vehemently against it, however when I looked at the situation I realised my opposition was not based on scientific fact or proven distress to the quarry but indoctrinated 'hatred' of the idea of chinless wonders playing out. Reasoned investigation and discussion led to my eventual realisation that I was wrong, a difficult admission for anyone, but there you have it.
Fact over propaganda. I am a supporter of the rights of country people to administer their own rights and freedoms.
jimmyboots, Monday, 27 April 2009
i want to see the ban thrown out its a load of bollox everything should have a season and be controlled in my eyes
Chas, Monday, 27 April 2009
ANYONE that equates this to dog fighting doesn't know his/her head from a whole in the ground. They are worlds apart.
Maggie, Monday, 27 April 2009
Hunter - it wasn't 'a politician' that banned hunting with hounds - it was the will of the majority of people that did. The fact politicians listened to the majority is very reassuring in a democracy like ours - when the will of the minority prevail that's called a dictatorship.
Maggie, Monday, 27 April 2009
Lambs - load of crap, if the lamb has half it's face missing it was most likely dead before this happened, and its face was likely pecked at by carrion birds such as crows and rooks that go for eyes etc. And if you want me to form some sort of disney image of fluffy lambs skipping in field into eternity you've got another thing coming - if the lamb hadn't died and had its face scavenged, in a few months it would be driven miles to the abbatoir, hopefully (not always effectively) stunned before having its hind leg stuck through with a meat hook and its throat slit - thats if it isn't exported live. So no I don't think even if I had seen a lamb with no face that I would ever agree with hunting.
Maggie, Monday, 27 April 2009
Orion, if everyone was allowed to act on deep rooted genetic compulsions murder would be legal - it is a fact that human beings are war-like and aggressive towards each other genetically - therefore you are saying that to imprison a murderer is to deny them their human right to act on their genetic compulsions. You may not be aware, but human beings have the ability to reason (unlike other animal species who act on compulsion) and decide not to do something when it is wrong or fundementally compromises the welfare of another being. Or are you saying that Bob the rapist should be let off because he was acting on a deep-rooted genetic compulsion to spread his genetic material?????????????????????????????????????????
For Orion - agree completely.
for Orion, Monday, 27 April 2009
1. The amazonian tribesman hunts for food. He needs it to survive. Fox hunters dont eat foxes and can survive quite well without hunting.
2. There is no such thing as an indigenous population of this country, Every single person in it is the
descendant of an Immigrant. Even the name English betrays this truth. The Angles came from Holland(ish). Saxony is in Germany, So being an anglosaxon makes you of dutch/german descent.
Orion, Monday, 27 April 2009
I have not voted as neither option is preferable. I do not think of hunting as a birthright but more as a deep-rooted genetic compulsion . I am genetically programmed to hunt and to deny my that is a breach of my human rights.
Neither is hunting in its self brutal.
To all those who have voiced and opinion in opposition to hunting, please ask yourself this.
How comfortable would you be telling an Amazonian tribesman that he is cruel and barbaric for continuing to hunt when the western world is just around the corner.
Please remember that when you are asking the indigenous population of this country to turn their back on their cultural heritage and rural traditions.
Lambs2, Monday, 27 April 2009
No I wouldn't.
lambs, Monday, 27 April 2009
if you had seen a lamb with half its face missing from a fox you would support hunting
Dale, Monday, 27 April 2009
BAN BANNING THE BAN!!!
CLH, Monday, 27 April 2009
We have a freedom of choice in this country.
Hunter, Monday, 27 April 2009
a totally ludicrous law that will be lifted soon and will allow us all to get back to what we have always done. no politician has the right to stop what is centuries old tradition & a legitimate means of pest control...any one who says its cruel clearly has no idea about the countryside & the animals within it!
BAN THE BAN!!
Maggie, Monday, 27 April 2009
Oh god the old townie point limping out of its stable again then! Despite born and bred countryfolk expressing their disgust at foxhunting. But it does the anti camp no harm if you overestimate your support so keep on with it.
Chris H - now advocating taking funding away from the RSPCA - nice shown of inhumanity yet again. Do you realise that the RSPCA receives no government funding and therefore relies on charitable donations to rescue, house, feed, medicate and operate on animals as well as paying their staff a wage, training new staff, running vehicles, paying building overheads etc etc. If they put animals to sleep it is the only alternative left, and given there is only one limited pot of money that they can draw from it is inevitable that at some point they will run out of resources and have to put animals to sleep. I have worked with the RSPCA and ending an animal's life is the last resort, and is usually done when the animal is dying or so badly injured or neglected that it can't be saved and rehomed. If you've got a problem with animals being put to sleep then you might like to turn your ignorance in the direction of irresponsible owners. I find your objection to a quick, painless death entirely hypocritical given the horrendous suffering you like to inflict upon another creature - and all for your own enjoyment. But no - you go ahead tell people to stop donating and see what you get - streets full of packs of stray dogs and cats, horses left to die in fields or caught up in the ropes that tether them, badger baiting, dog fighting, etc etc. Idiot
Johnny Reb, Monday, 27 April 2009
Gpunk there are indeed exceptions to every rule.
Unfortunately here in the countryside, it is indeed townies that cause the bulk of the problems for the countryside.
We have townies 'escape' from the towns to come and live amongst us, then do their utmost to turn the place they move to into the very things they supposedly try and escape from.
I do know many townspeople that do indeed have a clue, and I would not qualify them as 'townies' as a result, but the word 'townies' has come to express a very real problem mentality a section of the population has.
In a way, 'townie' is a very definitive hat, and if it doesn't fit you, then you obviously don't have to wear it.
Believe me Gpunk, my rant against townies is well justified, but even townies can grow up and wise up. I can say this, because I used to be one of those vegetarian bunny hugging townies too.
As the old saying goes, "You can fool all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time".
This boy won't get fooled again, that's for sure.
Charlotte, Monday, 27 April 2009
If we agree that the fox population needs to be managed then hunting is the most natural and humane way of doing so.
As for birth right the hunt provides jobs within rural communities banning hunting penalises the poor who rely on the hunt for their livelihoods not the rich - they are just pis**d of!
People should understand hunting before passing comment or becoming for or against something they know nothing about!
chrissiew, Monday, 27 April 2009
Yawn, I have no time to read the whole thing, I am a country person and spend most of my time from dawn till dusk outside, not stuck in an office with a computer. I merely came to this site to add my opinion to the vote! (As is my right).
Cheryl, Monday, 27 April 2009
If foxes need controlling, shoot them. Don't chase them endlessly across the countryside and rip them to shreds with a pack of hounds. Don't block them into their earths, dig them out and release them in right in front of the hounds to get torn limb from limb. Don't send terriers into their earth to attack them, and then have men dig them up and belt them round the head with shovels. I am under no illusions about shooting and know it is not kind either, but as an active anti, born and bred on a farm, and still living in the countryside, I have witnessed close up the barbarity of the hunt. I have probably seen more than most of the field, and believe me, it makes me ashamed to be human.
Chris H, Monday, 27 April 2009
LABOUR will regret what BLAIR and Brown allowed to happen. It gains no votes. It will loose them possibly 1000's of votes in key marginals. This is all that matters. Roll on the ELECTION. Do not give money to the RSPCA, they obviously use it for political purposes whilst 'euthinasing' healthy dogs. They are horrifingly too quick with the syringe!
'Antis' wont just go away after the repeal, what is needed is proper laws and effective enforcement to control the activities of such belligerents. Hunts going about their lawfull activities have a right as much as anyone to protection under the law. Lawfull expression of protest yes, but no more. No harassment. In a democracy such as ours this is how it is supposed to work. no tiny minority should hold sway. What political 'deals' were done to allow 'The Ban' ? Soon it will come back to haunt misguided Labour. They have really lost their way having come to power on the crest of a wave, money in the bank and a booming economy! They can only 'Blame the previous government' for their good fortune! How different things are now.
I am just a litlle frustrated voice in the wilderness, one of the vast silent majority.
I thank anybody reading this for their time, and wish you health and happiness!
saf, Sunday, 26 April 2009
Keep the townies out of all this. They know nothing of country life, animals, wildlife or nature. If they knew a bit more about hunting they would know that it is the most humane way of killing foxes - how else - traps, poison, snares??? Think of the poor farmers who struggle with their lambs and other young livestock. Keep hunting and ban the ban.
born to hunt, Sunday, 26 April 2009
KEEP THE HUNTING im only 14 and even i understand why we need to hunt you townies that have no idea should shut up and shove off we dont tell you what to do in the cities so why should you tell us what to do in the country!! my grandad was our hunt master and we still have all our hounds and horses and no laws will stop us keeping down the vermin numbers if we dont hunt them with thedogs we shoot them JUST FACE IT WE WILL KILL THEM HOW EVER! KEEP HUNTING AND BAN THE BAN!
BB, Sunday, 26 April 2009
This whole website is depressing cos it makes me realize how bigotted and inhumane so many people in the country are. So much for a more compassionate and kinder world to fellow man and animals. You would think it is the dark ages.
Yawn, Sunday, 26 April 2009
Chrissiew yes thanks for that, you must be the 16th person to mention that, As you would know if you had bothered to read other peoples comments
chrissiew, Sunday, 26 April 2009
Funny picture - they look like a load of show jumpers - not the correct dress for hunting - as those that know will know, hunt coats are made of Melton not Trevira - and they're wearing show-jumpers' hats!
NLB, Sunday, 26 April 2009
Hunting is the highlight of my winter. It's a great day out to spend with you horse and comrades - why all the fuss - let the country people decide what's best for the countryside.
dorset Em, Sunday, 26 April 2009
All this anti Blair stuff is bewildering. It was a free vote which the hunting lobby lost, quite rightly.
Maggie, Sunday, 26 April 2009
Barney - but how can it be? A countryman who disagrees with hunting with hounds? Surely there is no such thing! Ha ha - of course you'll be accused of lying and secretly hiding out in a highrise in the middle of a drug riddled inner city estate - just like I;ve been on numerous occasions.
Barney, Sunday, 26 April 2009
Oh! I'm a country boy, born and bred, by the way!
Barney, Sunday, 26 April 2009
BRUTALITY! As every right-minded person can see! Killing animals for fun is not a birth right. It's been proven time and time again that people hunt for 'sport' and not to protect livestock (it's not an effective way of protecting livestock anyway - which was a major part of why the huting ban came about). Imagine hunting being your idea of fun - chasing a terrified animal and then watching hungry hounds rip its body to shreds. Perverted.
Maggie, Sunday, 26 April 2009
Jane Evans - completely agree.
Jane Evans, Sunday, 26 April 2009
This is utter rubbish! Birthright? To rip an animal to shreds? Get a grip you sad people.
Maggie, Saturday, 25 April 2009
What not even if my family farm? My friends farm - build stone walls, work dogs, have plenty of stock etc etc etc. If you want to fall into the trap of your own stereotypes be my guest Dan - I won't stop you as it does your cause no favours whatsoever.
I didn't think there was a ban on shooting? But if you are going to big up hunting with hounds by making out it is more humane than shooting, and given how horrific you all think shooting is, and how bad every gunman is in the country - I'd expect that you'd be all for a ban on shooting. Or is the truth nearer to the fact that you don't actually care how much the fox suffers really, but will happily play the more humane card in order to try and garner support for your barbarism?
tracy, Saturday, 25 April 2009
maggie sorry did not reply earlier i have been galavanting around the countryside on my horse trying to find innocent animals to murder!!!!!! I in know way advocate the ban on shooting,
Dan, Saturday, 25 April 2009
You do what?
And never said you did, I just don't believe you have ever actually experienced the countryside in it's true light.
Maggie, Saturday, 25 April 2009
Dan - I do! Yep believe it or not I'm not writing from a high rise in Peckham! (nthing against Peckham you understand - just don;t know London very well)
Dan, Saturday, 25 April 2009
Sean! This just shows your ignorance! We are country people, we understand the countryside and it's creatures. Foxes have territories like most other animals, we know quite accurately where a fox is likely to be.
There are so many examples of foxes that are hunted annually, this is because a fox will live in the same area for it's whole life if it can, and much respect is paid to these animals, and they are rarely dug. The reason they get away is because they are fit and healthy. Now try reading my earlier point again, anyone with even a basic grasp of the theory of evoloution can see it makes sense.
Dan, Saturday, 25 April 2009
And Maggie, if you succeed and we have no reason to maintain the countryside as it is, will you take the shovels and saws from us and carry on our work? Will you spend days at a time working in apauling weather to lay a hedge or clear a ditch? Will you spend hours trudging through fields looking for a lost animal even though the wind is so fierce you could not hear it scream?
Because here's the truth for you, the English countryside is one of the most unatural environments in the World. It looks the way it does because it has been cultivated for many to serve the needs and desires of humanity.
Dan, Saturday, 25 April 2009
It's banned because hunting was never very popular over there and it would have been a waste of time to repeal the ban.
Sean, Saturday, 25 April 2009
Dan - I really can't see how the piece on sheep backs hunting up - it completely blows the tired excuse of them being a threat at all to sheep and lambs out of the water. I'm sure its also a consolation for the fox that after it has been subjected to the terror of being chased to ground, dug out and facing terrier-in flicted injuries underground that it is finally shot! Naaat.
As for digging out the 'problem fox' how do you make sure you've got the right one? Different foxes are known to use different den sites and earths of others? But then of course - you've got a big Naughty Fox DNA database haven't you? All the ones in hoodies are routinely arrested and swabbed! WTF - how naive do you really think people are.
Maggie, Saturday, 25 April 2009
David - I have no idea what question was put to me by Tom. Could you please repeat it - i can see a post by him making statements but nowhere does it ask me for a response. If he's suggesting I think foxes are the same as people then he has taken my comments completely out of context (what a surprise coming from a pro!), my point is that the attitudes involved in both activities is exactly the same - it is just pointed towards a different being - that attitude being that the being is worth less than you, that you have the right to do what you like to it whether that will incur suffering or not. I'm well aware of what has happened to people throughout the centuries, but perhaps without this concept of 'vermin' we may well have avoided a great many of those attrocities - but no be my guest instill some more of those values into your children and watch them happen again and again.
As for people harping on about Hitler continuously like dogs with bones (quite amusing to watch how you all pounce on the most tenous of support for your cause) - Dan is infact right, the plan was that once Europe was all under German control they were going to carve it up and grant every German a piece of land on which they could shoot. Have a quick look around at some other countries in Europe when hunting with hounds is banned - such as Holland, some of the most forward thinking and modern countries going.
Dan, Saturday, 25 April 2009
"the only thing i have against this form of hunting is that when the fox makes it home it should be left to fight another day not dug out and set about by the dogs apart from that i have no objections to this hunting"
Many hunters would agree with this point of view, and very often the fox is left, but if it is a problem fox who is taking livestock/game then often the farmer/keeper will ask that the fox be dug out. And the fox will always be shot by the terierman before being given to the hounds as their prize, after all what is the point in chasing their quarry all that way if they do not get to eat at least some of it.
Dan, Saturday, 25 April 2009
" "Its a little known fact than when Adolf Hitler came to power he abolished foxhunting in Germany,"
This is a well known fact actually and what are you implying here? Sounds like this is the emotive rubbish to me."
Yes, Hitler did ban foxhunting in Germany, but as with the Labour Government, he did not have the interests of the fox in mind. Many of his henchmen (Goering in particular, I believe) were shooting men, and as such wanted hunting banned because they wanted the fox population eradicated by game keepers rather than controlled by huntsmen.
Dan, Saturday, 25 April 2009
Maggie, about the point of foxes not taking sheep etc. Well that just backs up hunting. Naturally the fox is faster and smarter than the hound, this means the healthy, young foxes (the ones that don't tkae livestock) are rarely killed by hounds, and so hunting carries on the process of natural selection, and prevents widespread disease and inbreeding within the fox population.
Dan, Saturday, 25 April 2009
Maggie, about the point of foxes not taking sheep etc. Well that just backs up hunting. Naturally the fox is faster and smarter than the hound, this means the healthy, young foxes (the ones that don't tkae livestock) are rarely killed by hounds, and so hunting carries on the process of natural selection, and prevents widespread disease and inbreeding within the fox population.
David, Saturday, 25 April 2009
Maggie can you respond to Tom, please? If you can actually make any kind of logical or intellectual argument against what he is saying?
....or might he be right?
I guess no answer is an answer in itself.
Maggie, Saturday, 25 April 2009
I think you'll find the RSPCA is dedicated to working with Jewish and Muslim communities to bring religious slaughter into line with mainstream slaughter practices. And Russell - please answer me these -1) do you think that every animal slaughtered in a mainstream slaughterhouse is insensible before having its throat cut - answer is no. Because workers are paid on piece work the more the kill the better - hence some animals are also still conscious when they go into the scalding tanks etc.
2) Why do you think it's right for a you to commit a cruel act upon an animal but that it's not ok for someone belonging to an ethnic religious minority to do so? Smacks a bit of imperialism and racism to me.
Maggie, Saturday, 25 April 2009
For Russell you put the ws in
.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RSPCA/RSPCARedirect&pg=FAQs&articleId=1116592338074&topic=1112958900033&subtopic=1112958900098&previousPage=null
the only thing i have against this form of hunting is that when the fox makes it home it should be left to fight another day not dug out and set about by the dogs apart from that i have no objections to this hunting
21st century fox, Saturday, 25 April 2009
"What about the many millions who where used as slave labour by Hitler and his henchmen and exterminated in concentration camps when they were no longer useful or able to work, Its a little known fact than when Adolf Hitler came to power he abolished foxhunting in Germany,"
This is a well known fact actually and what are you implying here? Sounds like this is the emotive rubbish to me.
Emily, Saturday, 25 April 2009
But... how do we even KNOW what these people are doing? maybe they are just out for a spot of horseriding through the countryside?
these images are highly emotive but overly simplified with no context provided. what is this website all about???
Russell S, Saturday, 25 April 2009
View MAGGIE?
Russell S, Saturday, 25 April 2009
What's Your veiw MAGGIE?
Russell S, Saturday, 25 April 2009
Want to talk about cruelty, Why do you rant on about Hunting, when animals are slaughtered every day for Halal Meat. Not a word from the RSPCA or the likes.
Gpunk, Saturday, 25 April 2009
@ Johnny Reb. A perfectly formed and informative post. As an anti I found it an interesting read until......... these 2 words. " STUPID TOWNIES" You let yourself down with that. You asumed as most people do with the stereotype that all anti's are "tree hugging leftie, hippy, liberal, people who know nothing of the country. Not one of those words can be attributed to me at all. I am a Tory supporting member of Her majesties armed forces who has lived the vast majority of his life in the country. I urge you as someone who clearly has a brain to take a step back and ditch your stereotypical views and educate your friends that many people from many walks of life have many different opinions. Mine? My opinion just happens to differ from yours. Dont lower yourself to the petty name calling and asume that all antis are stupid.
steve s, Friday, 24 April 2009
There have been a few comments like "we dont need to hunt to survive so why do it"
and "the human race is evolving and hunting is no longer required"
Is everything we do just done for survival? we have evolved into a race of gutless lazy useless slobs that seem to be happy to be invaded by all and sundry,happy for our teenagers to breed indiscriminately and spend there whole lives leeching off society. Happy to be importing diseases that had been almost eradicated by our vaccination programmes, Happy to spend millions aborting polish pregnancies at our expence and not a word is said against it.Happy for our young to shoot each other,happy for them to fill their veins with all sorts of unimaginable filth.
Happy for children to be fed on ready meals and other rubbish that makes them ill.
Happy for child molesters and murderers to live on the same streets as ordinary people.
I WILL HUNT AND KILL THINGS FOR AS LONG AS I LIVE BECAUSE I B****Y WELL ENJOY IT i seek not to justify what i do with reasons such as pest control, valid as they may be.
F**K THE BAN I DONT CARE IF ITS REPEALED OR NOT I WILL STILL BE OUT THERE
be happy for me, a pure bred Englishman in his own land
Foxgun Tom, Friday, 24 April 2009
Maggie!!
I noticed you did'nt respond my comments to hunting and your mention of the slavery issue!!
Tom Chalmers (aka) Foxgun Tom
Ps: I'm still supporting Hunting!! and supporting Amnesty International in the Campaign to Abolish International Slavery
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Tom Chalmers, 6 hours ago
Maggie, 1 hour ago
Chris - you are quite right. Funny you should mention the slave trade - kind of started around the same time that chasing, torturing and then killing a fox came into vogue! Funny that eh?
_______________________________________________________________________
What a load of emotive rubbish!! you have no concept or understanding on the issue of slavery as is clear, from your post above!! equating the the inception of the slave trade with the time that foxhunting came into vogue!!, just to score points? slavery has been around for millenia, what about the Israelite slaves taken out of bondage by Moses as mentioned in the bible?, The Portugese and Spanish exported African slaves into the Americas at a time when foxhunting was'nt in vogue and neither of these two countries even at the present time show an interest in fox-hunting
What about the many millions who where used as slave labour by Hitler and his henchmen and exterminated in concentration camps when they were no longer useful or able to work, Its a little known fact than when Adolf Hitler came to power he abolished foxhunting in Germany, My own family and Clan members were victims of the slave trade many of them were banished from Scotland, for taking part in the 1745 rebellion and many of them died while being transported and used as forced labour in the sugar plantations of the Carribean and West Indies, Foxhunting was'nt in vogue then either!!
Equating Slavery with foxhunting shows a degree of ignorance and and downright stupidity of the concept of slavery which still exists today in many parts of the world where people are still suffering and dying in bondage!!
As for me, I'm still supporting Hunting!! and supporting Amnesty International in the Campaign to Abolish International Slavery
Tom Chalmers (aka) Foxgun Tom
Johnny Reb, Friday, 24 April 2009
Anyone seen what happens to foxes when left alone?
Before long their numbers are out of control, and they start going down with diseases like mange.
Any of you ever seen a fox with mange?
I normally shoot foxes in the lead up to lambing, through lambing, and then once the lambs are at a safe enough size to not be at risk, I stop.
Three times in the last 20 years or so, I have seen fox numbers get so high that mange became rampant, and one of the worst things I have seen is a fox covered in sores with a few tiny wisps of its coat left. I have seen that too often.
In years like that, I don't stop shooting foxes when the lambs are safe, I stop shooting foxes when the numbers are thinned enough to eradicate the mange.
Three times myself and my friends have had to do that, and each time, by the following autumn. we had thinned numbers enough for the local fox population to be fit and healthy again.
I've never hunted foxes on horseback, and never would (the brakes are terrible). My effort is primarily around control of overall numbers, and I can't do anything much (except by luck) about the foxes that cause most of the problems.
Those old foxes have seen it all, and it's almost impossible to get near enough to them to get a safe shot at them at night (maximum safe range for a night shot with a lamp, is about 300 yds, and the old foxes thta cause most of the problems, will keep a constant 400 - 500 yds away from you, watching everything that you are doing).
The only method of fox control that can do anything about the real problem foxes, is fox hunting on horseback. Some of you might not like that reality, but there it is. Foxes do need to be controlled, just like deer need to be controlled, just like crows need to be controlled.
Before the First World War, my grandfather almost never saw a wild rabbit. The Countryside round here was full of a rich diversity of wildlife. We had the best grouse moors in the Country, outstanding partridege shooting, waterfowl, everything you could think of. Due to the huge number of small sporting estates here, and their gamekeepers.
The War saw those gamekeepers largely killed off, the sons of the estates were largely killed off, and by the time my grandfather came home from the war, there were rabbits everywhere.
Rabbits became so bad, it was impossible to farm anything other than rabbits. Thankfully, before Government killed that market too (releasing myxamatosis), there was a huge demand from the cities for rabbit meat which helped thinsg rural along pretty well.
In the years since, with almost no gamekeepers, and no sporting estates, our diversity of wildlife has plummetted, the populations of pests and vermin have increased astronomically, and STILL STUPID TOWNIES AND POLITICIANS CAN'T STOP INTERFERING WHERE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND OR EVEN COMPREHEND THE DAMAGE THEY ARE DOING!
I tell you this, when you run out of food in the towns, STAY THERE.
There will be no place for you and your attitudes out here, and I suspect fox hunting will get a temporary reprive, while hunting eyes get turned to addressing insanities.
sean, Friday, 24 April 2009
hunting will never stop so stop moaning and go hug a tree or make yourself a nice lentil soup !
Maggie, Friday, 24 April 2009
Fact is those methods are likely to be used whether hunting with hounds is present or not, by legalising HWHs you're just adding to the suffering, not subtracting anything unless of course shooting is banned.
Maggie, Friday, 24 April 2009
Fact is those methods are likely to be used whether hunting with hounds is present or not, by legalising HWHs you're just adding to the suffering, not subtracting anything unless of course shooting is banned.
Maggie, Friday, 24 April 2009
Tracy - so that would suggest we need to ban shooting as a method of control then if it really does compromise animal welfare in the way suggested - don't you agree?
tracy, Friday, 24 April 2009
Also There is very little moral distinction between fox hunting and eating fish or owning a cat. MacDonald does not recoil at the idea of fox hunting, and finds it morally indistinguishable from such common activities as eating fish or owning a cat. He notes that "people's gastronomic enjoyment outweighs their concern for the consequences of harvesting billions of fish annually, as their enjoyment of their cat's companionship outweighs regret at the deaths of millions of hedgerow birds annually."
tracy, Friday, 24 April 2009
Also from Mr Macdonalds book Foxhunting is not the most cruel way to die. MacDonald notes that most kinds of "natural" death are cruel, and that immortality is not an option for the fox. Is "natural" starvation, disease or predation more cruel, or less cruel, than an "unnatural" death by hunting, which is likely to be swift and sure? MacDonald notes that "If hunting stopped, the same number of foxes, or even more, would be killed by people using other methods such as traps, poison, snares or night-shooting," as most fox that are purposely terminated in the UK are on bird-shoot estates where the fox is in direct competition with the "excess" birds released into the wild. As MacDonald notes, hunters are willing to pay £10 a bird -- fox are not.
tracy, Friday, 24 April 2009
You are never going to stop me hunting be it be on horseback with hounds, on the land with my lurcher and ferrets. Hunting is not just about chasing foxes.
Maggie, Friday, 24 April 2009
terrierman.com/macdonald.htm
link to above book review with relevant w additions
Maggie, Friday, 24 April 2009
Some conclusions drawn by a population Biologist, David MacDonald - a self-confessed 'hunter at heart' and featured on the website - 'terrierman.com':
"Foxes do almost no damage to sheep populations. After spending countless hours observing fox in sheep country, often at night and through infra-red goggles, MacDonald concludes that fox are not very fond of mutton and that they do very little predation on live lambs. Given almost any kind of alternative food source -- rabbits, bird seed, worms, baby birds, fruit or roadkill -- a fox will give sheep a miss. When fox do eat sheep, they tend to focus on already-dead detritus -- sheep tes*%cles that drop off into the field after bands are applied (MacDonald notes that he often finds fox feces containing these same undigested rubber bands), after birth, and even sheep dung from young lambs -- the latter loaded with still-undigested milk products. MacDonald does not deny that fox may kill a few very young (and perhaps already fatally weak) sheep, but such attacks are so rare they have never been filmed and are statistically negligible. MacDonald notes that in the fell and upland regions, where fear of fox predation is highest, sheep mortality is often 25% with many lambs born starving due to over-grazing abetted by a government policy that subsidizes overly-dense sheep production. With ewes in poor feed, and lambs borne wet on cold and windy slopes without shelter, lamb mortality is very high without any fox participation at all. The fact that fox, on occasion, scavenge the already-dead does little harm to the living".
Messer, Friday, 24 April 2009
To be honest, there will never be agreement between hunters and anti hunt people......one side will never convince the other that they are right.
I for one support the anti hunt peoples right to express there opinion and would defend that right.......I wonder how many of the anti hunt lobby could say the same?
The very fact that an unjust law that in one fell swoop criminalised one of THE MOST law abiding and upstanding sections of the population was called for and allowed to be put on the statute books is frankly........criminal!!
I wonder how many of the anti hunt people support the terrorists who have made the life of the workers at Huntingdon Life Sciences a living hell?
Those terrorists who threaten ordinary folks familys and even sink as low as to dig up dead relatives of people connected with HLS are the real criminals.
If imposing your will on others who are by and large good folk makes you feel proud then you have to look inside yourself and ask what sort of human being you are?
Justify, Friday, 24 April 2009
Just because we hunt foxes does not mean we do not respect our quarry! I have more respect for my quarry than i do the society we live in and its all down to crime on the streets hunting should never of been banned and one day soon we wil reapeal and we will win.Even if we dont we wont stop doing what we were brought up doing,and as for the artificial trail for the hounds i dont know a hunt in my area thats stopped hunting foxes with 20 couple of hounds out!
What the anti's dont know doesn't hurt them keep Hunting
Tally hoo fellow hunters
WOW, Friday, 24 April 2009
its all about the money isnt it
8 July 1999 - Prime Minister Tony Blair makes a surprise announcement that he plans to make fox hunting illegal and before the next general election if possible.
12 July 1999 - Labour denies that Mr Blair's pledge is connected to an extra £100,000 donation it had received from an anti-hunt pressure group. The Political Animal Lobby (PAL), had previously given £1m to the party before the 1997 election.
PAL had also made donations to the Tories and the Liberal Democrats.
We should be doing this again, Friday, 24 April 2009
1 March 1998 - After the Foster bill passes its second reading in the Commons, the pro-hunting Countryside Alliance organises a massive protest rally in London. An estimated 250,000 people join the countryside march to protest against the bill and threats to other aspects of rural life.
13 March 1998 - Hunt supporters celebrate as the Foster bill runs out of time during its report stage in the Commons. The bill is talked out by hunt-supporting MPs who table hundreds of amendments to block the legislation's progress. Mr Foster pledges to fight on.
Tom Chalmers, Friday, 24 April 2009
Maggie, 1 hour ago
Chris - you are quite right. Funny you should mention the slave trade - kind of started around the same time that chasing, torturing and then killing a fox came into vogue! Funny that eh?
_______________________________________________________________________
What a load of emotive rubbish!! you have no concept or understanding on the issue of slavery as is clear, from your post above!! equating the the inception of the slave trade with the time that foxhunting came into vogue!!, just to score points? slavery has been around for millenia, what about the Israelite slaves taken out of bondage by Moses as mentioned in the bible?, The Portugese and Spanish exported African slaves into the Americas at a time when foxhunting was'nt in vogue and neither of these two countries even at the present time show an interest in fox-hunting
What about the many millions who where used as slave labour by Hitler and his henchmen and exterminated in concentration camps when they were no longer useful or able to work, Its a little known fact than when Adolf Hitler came to power he abolished foxhunting in Germany, My own family and Clan members were victims of the slave trade many of them were banished from Scotland, for taking part in the 1745 rebellion and many of them died while being transported and used as forced labour in the sugar plantations of the Carribean and West Indies, Foxhunting was'nt in vogue then either!!
Equating Slavery with foxhunting shows a degree of ignorance and and downright stupidity of the concept of slavery which still exists today in many parts of the world where people are still suffering and dying in bondage!!
As for me, I'm still supporting Hunting!! and supporting Amnesty International in the Campaign to Abolish International Slavery
Tom Chalmers (aka) Foxgun Tom
1949, Friday, 24 April 2009
1949 - Two private member's bills to ban, or restrict, hunting fail to make it onto the statute books. One is withdrawn, the other is defeated on its second reading in the Commons. The Labour government appoints a committee of inquiry to investigate all forms of hunting. The committee concludes: "Fox hunting makes a very important contribution to the control of foxes, and involves less cruelty than most other methods of controlling them. It should therefore be allowed to continue."
Messer, Friday, 24 April 2009
Just to make clear that messer via jamie is not me!!
Jamie you are obviously a very young or uneducated fellow (or both) so let me make a couple of things clear.
1. I have never myself or ever seen a hunter or dogs "rip up" anything, I have seen dogs kill prey quickly and with no fuss but no "ripping up" I am afraid to say.
2. Nearly every hunter I know has nothing but the utmost respect for there chosen quarry.
3. Hunters are some of the best naturalists I know, they love the countryside and the animals that live in it, they dont wipe out populations of animals....... they hunt and preserve.
The FACT is, without hunting and pest control we would not have the diverse wildlife in certain areas that we now enjoy.
I for one want to enjoy the countryside, hunt and enjoy wild food (not some TESCO packaged garbage full of god knows what)......I dont drink, I dont do drugs and I pretty much cant stand modern life........I just want to be left alone to continue my way of life.
I can tell you this much, I would rather my kids hunted and formed a love of the countryside than ended up drunk and fighting on the streets on a Saturday night.
example, Friday, 24 April 2009
Fox are predator vermin.
Shoot them and hang their stinking carcasses from a tree to warn off others. You should know they usually travel in pairs and there may be kits nearby.
Once they taste your chickens, they will be back for more again and again until you solve the infestation.
I live in a surburban area and they show up every so often and pet cats and Yorkshire Terriers get killed.
COME ON BAN THE BAN, Friday, 24 April 2009
Fox hunting is an activity involving the tracking, chase, and sometimes killing of a fox, traditionally a red fox, by trained foxhounds or other scent hounds, and a group of followers led by a master of foxhounds, who follow the hounds on foot or on horseback.[1]
Fox hunting originated in the United Kingdom in the 16th century, but is practised all over the world, including Australia, Canada, France, Ireland, Italy, Russia, and the United States.[2][3] In Australia, the term also refers to the hunting of foxes with firearms similar to spotlighting or deer hunting.
The sport is controversial, particularly in the UK, where a ban was introduced in November 2004.[4] Proponents see it as an important part of rural culture, vital for conservation and pest control,[5][6][7] while opponents argue that it is cruel and unnecessary.[8]
Messer, Friday, 24 April 2009
Marie and Maggie, thank you for your replys......at least they were not claptrap.
I dont buy into it I am afraid (but then I was never going to really)
Marie, I find it interesting that you would impose your will upon your friends, you dont sound like much of a friend to me.
To the two of you, is it just fox hunting that you find distasteful or all hunting?
Because if your objection is to killing animals, be it for pest control, food or whatever then I take it you are both vegan, dont buy leather shoes or any animal products?
If you are, then fair play.......you are practising what you preach.
If you do eat meat, buy leather shoes or use anything containing an animal by product then I am afraid you had better go an have a rethink on your position with regards to killing animals.
I still dont agree thats its right for someone to come along and tell me that I can no longer perform an activity that it has been perfectly legal to perform for thousands of years just because a small proportion of the population dont like it.
Lets be honest, the ban was bought and paid for with £1 million pounds worth of donations to the Labour party from so called "Animal Rights" organisations......it had absolutely nothing to do with democracy or popular opinion.......95% of the public coulnt give a dam as long as they can still go to the pub and get drunk.
messer via jamie, Friday, 24 April 2009
Bring your AK47 and the army with you you will still never stop me why dont you all go back to your day jobs and your lives and leave us country men to get on with our????
Jamie, Friday, 24 April 2009
Messer - by making the 'you can't deny me a natural behaviour' argument - how about the next time you're out ripping up an animal, I bring by AK47 with me (don't have one just in theory) and act on my natural instincts and rid the world of some genetic material I really think it doesn't need?
Maggie, Friday, 24 April 2009
To be honest the whole engineered scenario of a hunt with hounds is so far removed from what we'd do naturally anyway that Messer's argument is laughable.
Apparently most hunters never see the kill or even the fox - so if you are all following an unquenchable instinct to hunt something down, where does that fit in? Sounds like you might need therapy before your bloodlust gets turned upon a human subject.
Maggie, Friday, 24 April 2009
Messer - it is also a natural instinct to kill other human beings to defend territory, food etc - so I take it you're not going to stand in my way if I want to club you over the head if you happen to be preventing me from doing something I want to then, or maybe I can burn down your house with you in it because I fancy living where you do? Or maybe my male neighbour can come and take your wife and daughters because he has the urge for sexual gratification upon them?
You might like to take a look at some of Richard Dawson's work, which clearly shows how humans have also evolved to have 'theory of mind' and 'empathy' for the feelings of other sentient beings (obviously not in your case given your neanderthal tendancies) - it's what underlies our 'moral code' and has conferred a benefit upon us as a species - or we'd all be out stabbing each other - because in truth the pain of another person has absolutely no physical implications for you whatsoever. This theory of mind and empathy is what makes us human and humane.
Marie, Friday, 24 April 2009
"If any of the anti hunting lobby can give me a valid reason to deny another human being its natural behaviour other than they just "dont like it" then I will accept that. "
Because we have the intelligence to determine whether following our own instincts is detrimental to others (be it other humans or animals) and the conscience to act on that intelligence.
Homosexuals have no choice in the matter (despite what some people may think)- hunters have a choice not to hunt. Compring the two is as idiotic as comparing hunters to paedophiles and terrorists (they get a thrill from cruelty don't they??) Paedophilia has been theorised to be a sexual orientation so we should allow paedophiles to carry out their natural behaviour? When you look at how ridiculous that argument is then you can see how ridiculous your own is.
Oh, and please don't come back with the response that I am comparing hunters to paedophiles- I am not. Nor, by the way, would I ever suggest that hunters are cruel or bloodthirsty- I have friends who hunt and I understand their reasons, I just don't think they should be allowed to do it.
Messr is blinkered, Friday, 24 April 2009
The valid and educated reason is thus:
It is wrong.
Ok?
MESSER, Friday, 24 April 2009
Still no educated valid reason then?
jjs, Friday, 24 April 2009
Ban the thought police and carry on hunting.
Christine, Friday, 24 April 2009
So Messer, we women must now watch out for the male hero, club in hand, striding down the street and bashing us over the head and dragging us to his cave. That's natural instinct isn't it? Why don't you stand for the Anarchy party, because that's what your saying. You like the rule of law that says don't do this or that when it's protecting your home, family, car etc. when somebody following their natural behaviour takes a fancy to it or steals from it. You 'don't like it' either. What's the difference?
Bloke, Friday, 24 April 2009
If it was natural we would all be born on horses, you wouldnt have to train the dogs and alcohol would be freely available and you wouldnt have to brew it. Dont talk such cobblers Messr. Human beings evolved to trade slaves, is that ok with you?
Mary, Friday, 24 April 2009
Wow! Hunter, it's Copper's N*b. Support your local community basic skills classes - literacy for all. You've got plenty of time outside of hunting to broaden your intellectual learning base - there's plenty of room in your brain to broaden this out.Fancy bringing the police into it. You always call them to defend you on your nasty little killing trips. You seem such a nice simple person, that I wonder why I dislike you so much.
MESSER, Friday, 24 April 2009
Maggie the point is that its a basic human instinct, what you actually hunt has nothing to do with it.......do anti hunting people actually believe they have the right to tell another human being not to do something they have evolved to do?
Please anwser me this, would you tell a homosexual man that he can no longer be homosexual?
Would you tell a black man that its not right to be black?
I wouldnt dream of telling another human being not to do as nature intended them to do.
It is how human beings have evolved and like it or not, its in all of us to the core
Its as normal as happy, sad, anger, fear, greed, love......
If any of the anti hunting lobby can give me a valid reason to deny another human being its natural behaviour other than they just "dont like it" then I will accept that.
It better be a blooming good reply...........lol
mary, Friday, 24 April 2009
=
COPPERS N*B
Tally Ho, Friday, 24 April 2009
First drink on the way to the meet. Port at the meet. Hip flask to keep one topped up throughout the day. Chasing through England's glorious countryside on horse back in good company. Followed by a boozy tea.
Wonderful!!
Surely a day like that doesn't make one a bad person.
Mary, Friday, 24 April 2009
Hi Hunter, Can't even spell llok or f***. Yes you really need lessons. No I didn't respond to your deliberations regarding your nasty little pastime. That goes without saying. The level of brain power need to abuse animals is minimal that's why you're doing it.
You guessed my job - how clever!
Maggie, Friday, 24 April 2009
Svet and Christine - agree completely. They talk about removing the 'problem foxes with hunting' what now do the dogs/hounds (same thing) go out and sample every fox's DNA in the neighbourhood so that when a lamb dies and is scavenged by a hungry fox they can then pin point exactly which fox is responsible a week later! You really are all having the biggest belly laugh ever. As for cubs previously being able to grown old - again that would be rather hard when 6 months later they are trapped in a covert and virtually fed to a pack of hounds - yes nice and sporting what? Tally ho and all that.
Messer - yes we have evolved to hunt for food - I don't see many hunters sitting down to a nice bit of roast fox after an evening's hunting - again why it is so unnatural for humans to be hunting foxes -and for dogs for that matter which is why you have to teach them to do it. Left to themselves, the pack would naturally prefer a nice juicy sheep - after all how many hounds would a fox realistically feed?
TO, Friday, 24 April 2009
SYVT
What!!! Look back in the olden day what form of transport was used! Riding on a horse makes no difference if a horse didnt want someone on it im sure it could get them off it easy enough!
svet, Friday, 24 April 2009
sad how much people can be decieved about sports and entertainment like this, circus with animals etc..
HUNTER, Friday, 24 April 2009
Mary;
It seem rather funny that all you can comment on is my spelling. Does it llok as if a give a f*** noo! Give your head a shake you dirty scrubber!
svet, Friday, 24 April 2009
this is not a sport, this is slavery and sadism!! and not like we have a necessity to ride horses these days. people get their rewards by bitting horses and damaging their phisical health and well-being. in fact you have to be brutal to success in such 'sport'. nothing to be proud of...
see e.g. "We have a scientifically proven fact, which allows us to state that not a single horse feels pleasure from a rider being on his back. That is the sad physiological truth. All the discussions from riders and their "feelings" about what horse experiences under the saddle - are strained feelings, self-deception, fantasies and ignorance". - from Haute Ecole Nevzorov. (sheck his website for further info and video)
Christine, Friday, 24 April 2009
Dan how sad you are! Love the idea of dressing your children up, having respect (!) and hunting animals gives you a work ethic. Kids in inner cities don't have adults teaching them how to use a knife, but in hunting there are adults teaching children that all they have to do is ride a horse and follow some dogs to do the killing for them. What smartness, what work ethic, what respect! Get out a bit more Dan into the real world, or does a gruelling days work put you off?
MESSER, Friday, 24 April 2009
Its has nothing to do with if you approve or not of hunting, hunting is at the very core of every human beings DNA.
It as natural as breathing, sex, eating, walking.
Our eyes are at the front of our head, that makes us predators.
Its a very natural thing to do, if society told a homosexual man that he was not allowed to be homosexual there would be outrage.
If anyone can explain how one part of society can ban another from partaking in a totally natural process then I would sure like to hear there justifacation.
Untill that time, hunt and be proud, you are the keeper of a past that some would destroy.
TALLY HO!
Jane, Friday, 24 April 2009
Why don't hunters spend some time trying to repeal all animal protection laws. Animal sporting activites could then be put into an annual competition where the levels of pain and cruelty could be categorised for the buzz factor they give. Come on you hunters spend some time on repealing not just the hunting act, but any laws that give any animals protection. What fun you can have. Also a hound is a dog. It's not a stand-alone species!!
Mary, Friday, 24 April 2009
Hunter should spend some time away from his killing activities to learn some English
HUNTER, Friday, 24 April 2009
Believe this or not all you anti people will be very sad very soon i say no more than two years from now and the ban will be lifted/banned and maybe you will see charlie fox trooting across fields this time of year because i used to but not anymore purely pest controll and we no longer do it seasonal because of the ban!
HUNTER, Friday, 24 April 2009
Then:
True fact the ban never helped the fox at all there was a season when they would hunt and this time of year no-one hunted foxes we let them have there cubs and when they become pests they are delt with!
Now: I hunt all season round i sqeel the fox in and shoot them i get calls from big estates saying birds lambs are going missing i used to leave them alone this time of year not now in the past 3 weeks ive killed 8 vixens and 3dog foxes and the cubs sadly had to be dealt with,now its not something i enjoy doing killing cubs infact it saddens me! Before the ban foxes were controlled by hunts all over the country and number were kept nice and short now every fox im told must be delt with so the ban is worthless bring back hunting with hounds.Its faster death no pain and cubs are left to grow old untill they need to be controlled!
Maggie, Friday, 24 April 2009
We've all got laws to abide by - so get used to it. The law was remarkably tolerant in that it gave you a compromise - you can still ride to hounds, you just can't use those hounds to rip a fox to pieces. If you ask me the ban should be tightened and the loopholes sewn up.
If you really do believe hunting with hounds is far kinder to Mr Fox then why aren't you campaigning to have shooting wild animals banned? Obviously you don't believe that so strongly or really you couldn;t care less what level of suffering is involved because regardless of whether you are bouncing around on horses tearing small canines apart with bigger canines, shooting seems like it's here to stay - therefore you would only be adding to the foxes misery.
I don't see any pro getting on your soap box and campaigning for and end to shooting, which makes the whole ' hunting with hounds is more humane' sack of s*$t even less believeable.
Maggie, Friday, 24 April 2009
Again we see this page full of footstampers - no one's going to take my toys off me, not even a democratically elected government legislating in line with the will of the overwhelming majority of people? Funny isn't it if a burglar popped up and said 'no government's going to stop me burgling your house' you'd probably have something to say about it.
Maggie, Friday, 24 April 2009
Chris - you are quite right. Funny you should mention the slave trade - kind of started around the same time that chasing, torturing and then killing a fox came into vogue! Funny that eh?
Mont, Friday, 24 April 2009
When hunting was legal we used to see foxes in the fields around where we live in a hunting area as they were left alone through the summer.
Now hunting is banned they are just concidered vermin and destroyed. I have not seen a fox around for the last two years.
So who did the ban help, it was not the fox.
Bob Millum, Friday, 24 April 2009
Been doing it for 60 years no government is going to stop me. Where did they get the film extras to dress as showjumpers
JANE, Friday, 24 April 2009
Society trying to change nature is wrong. The fox is a hunter and will kill chickens for fun.
Chris, Friday, 24 April 2009
Heres a thought, during the emergence of the United states it used to be the slave owners RIGHT to keep slaves and the children that were born of slaves so that they can be slaves. Slavery and its activities was then abolished because it was deemed wrong and in humane.
Though the parallel is quite as similar, the premise is still there. Should a birthright still be allowed if it involves hunting down and killing a fox for sport even if it means that the fox should be killed in a highly painful and undignified manner?
Surley there are more discrete and dignified ways of killing and controlling pests?
sid, Friday, 24 April 2009
never wore a red coat in my life but have always been involved in hunting. even though those that wanted it banned thought it was all about the horse and hound, oh how wrong you were. next time you s*%$ your self when a rat comes near you dont call me, try and pick it up, tell it, it is a naughty thing and not to bother you again see where that gets you. when you are over run with rabbits and your full crop of mung beans have been destroyed, dont call me. ask it to eat the wild grown foder and see where that gets you.
i have seen more humanity shown by huntsmen and women towards what ever they hunt than has ever been shown by the anti hunting thugs that hide their face and beat up women, children and the old.
a hunter respects both his fellow man and his prey what ever the class.
Sim1, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I have always thought jumping wooden poles was clearly brutality!! this campaign has nothing to do with hunting only an a not very bright person would use a picture of show jumpers!
Graham, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Hunting controls the mange ridden city foxes that the city council's, RSPCA, or whoever catch them and dump them all over the countryside, infecting our healthy foxes and also our working dog's whether they are sheepdog's gun dog's or terriers .
REPEAL THE BAN and let hunting people get on with the most humane way of controlling foxes.
weejohn, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Maggie , you stated "'human right to be cruel' doesn't actually exist!
i am very sorry to tell you but it most definately does in the form of halal and kosher slaughter. they have the right to slit the throat of an animal without the aid of any kind of stunning method.
Simon, Thursday, 23 April 2009
. Looks like another anti stunt----------- EVEN the picture used is of a group of SHOWJUMPERS as you can see just by their red coats. Just like the sabs who mobbed showjumpers at a county show a few years ago, they think anyone in a red coat is after killing foxes etc.
boabtheplumber, Thursday, 23 April 2009
by the looks of things, this must be a campany run by female, count the number of comment posted
froggy, Thursday, 23 April 2009
keep on hunting and kill the fox pests - they leave our chicken and lambs to die in terror and agony! let the country stay country side and the townies stay in your towns!
what the hell, Thursday, 23 April 2009
charlotte
you havent a clue pet! Keep hunting if they want us to stop they have to confront us! Many years ago when they tried to ban the beagles they paid us £40 a day back then to go bash them you dont have a clue about country life! I wouldnt do it know but try stopping me when i appear in court i will ask for my charge of killing vermin un-humainly to be reduced to murder maybe ill get less time for it!
WEX, Thursday, 23 April 2009
We are living in a democracy, yet slowly but surely the feeling of a dictatorship is here. Our country is losing its identity and our traditions are vanishing. We constantly hear about the minorities deserving a voice and equality. Well we deserve our right to hunt and our right to live our lives the way we so feel. FU_K THE BAN HUNT FOREVER
Dan, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Wrong, foxes weren't classed as vermin when they were hunted. Now they are just shot mindlessly, heavy vixens, young healthy foxes, all of them. Hunting was a form of natural selection that killed off the weak and old.
charlotte, Thursday, 23 April 2009
i voted brutality and im in the country, and for the last time foxes are not classes as vermin!!!!!!!!!
Dan, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Maggie. how about you tell me what method is more humane rather than ask us to defend something without you providing any evidence against it.
Maggie, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Ah William - back with the lame old stereotypes I see. Nothing new there then.
Maggie, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Waz - no one's talking about Halal because that's a different topic. Yes it isn't very nice. As for fur - please google 'A shocking look inside Chinese fur farms' sit and watch all 15 minutes of the vid - I guarantee you'll not get a proper night's sleep for months. Then have a look at what goes on inside a British slaughter house - a world of difference. I agree though lots of leather in this country is imported from areas where regulations aren't as strict as in the UK - the only way is to chose British products as far as labelling permits you. Yes I'm anti- fox hunting yet I don't think the animal welfare issues are anywhere near as bad as in China's fur and meat trade. It might surprise you to know that I believe banning fur farms in the UK was the wrong thing to do - at least the animals would have lived and died under some sort of regulation - instead we continue to import fur from China and have simply magnified the cruelty involved god knows how many fold. (much of which comes from cat and dog - however species has nothing to do with it as not even the smallest creature should have to suffer what is shown in the above video). However the difference in degree still doesn't make hunting right. I would have to have significant proof that no other method is more humane to make me agree with it, and given that the alternatives are available which cause no suffering whatsoever, makes that change of heart unlikely.
wiliam offord, Thursday, 23 April 2009
birthright and brutality so suit fox hunting. how many people go on day " oh i wonder what fox hunting is like. ur either born or married into it simple as all those who said brutality thaks for your city opnion
Dan, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Also, where on Earth did they get that picture? Not out hunting, that's for sure. I have hunted all my life, and have never seen that many red coats together in one field.
Dan, Thursday, 23 April 2009
How about a debate on wearing fur? Because I bet all these anti's are against fur, but it could easily help reduce the consumption of oil.
Waz, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Why does no one question halal slaughter....traditions that have been brought to our country by others yet traditions that have been in this country for hundreds of years are banned? Because it would be polliticaly incorrect of course!! Just like people who shout about wearing fur whilst wearing leather shoes and munching on there big mac....hipocrites!!!
John, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I think this poll shows the strength of the countryside community, of which hunting supports throughout the season and even throughout the year..it was only through a contact that i knew about the poll and think that my voice should be heard! To advertise this in london underground makes this poll very bias..but still as it stands 82% have voted birthright!
Gash, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Why should we change a 1000 year tradition just casue a suit in an office or a veggan / veggie munchim gimp thinks hunting is cruel................. Our ancerstors hunted to survive we hunt to control vermin and sustain the hunting tradition nothing cruel about the debate each to there own. And as for the nuggets who thinks foxes dont take lambs get a grip of yourself they eat domestic cats and dogs as well given half the chance..................... Summary : W
Dan, Thursday, 23 April 2009
"nothing better to do with their lives than abuse animals and brutalise themselves and their children"
Where are you coming from? Especially with the brutalising their children comment, whilst many children in towns are running round in gangs, doped up and fighting each other hunting children are taught respect, manners, the importance of dressing smartly and are given a strong work ethic.
And, @Kris
I live at a hunt kennels, my father is the huntsman, and what do you expect? Hounds (not dogs, dogs are domesticated pets, hounds are a pack animal and are living in a state as close to their natural one as is possible in the modern age) eat raw meat because THAT IS WHAT THEY NATURALLY DO! When have you ever seen a wolf in the wild kill an animal, start a fire, make a spit and cook his food? And so what the hounds are fed from meat that is hanging, we don't do that here because it wouldn't be possible in our kennels, but if it is possible and more efficient why not? Hunt staff have massive work loads and work under the kind of pressure I expect you will never understand. And the fact that they allowed you into the kennels even thought they knew you were anti, does that not show how much mroe accepting hunting people are than the narrow minded, naive anti-hunting lobby?
bobby, Thursday, 23 April 2009
the hunting law is so mixed up they can not understand it them selfs so scrap it and leave us alone thanks bobby
Kris, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Sorry I hit the wrong button - I'm on the winkers comments - mustn't make that mistake again must I! Have any of you been to a hunt kennels and seen the meat hooks for the dogs - nice tasy lamb, beef and pork hanging there while the dogs eat it raw as it hangs. Don't deny it there's photos of it and I've been taken round these places by huntsmen - who knew I was anti - what people! What nasty little games you play when you go out hunting
Christine, Thursday, 23 April 2009
if it is considered that sadism is a birthright or it is inbreeding then I suppose there is a case, but I don't happen to think so. That people who have nothing better to do with their lives than abuse animals and brutalise themselves and their children, smacks of the worst decadence that even came out of the Roman Empire. That anybody with an ounce of self esteem would want to be attached to such a tyranny is beyond most right-thinking people.
Greg, Thursday, 23 April 2009
In the past couple of weeks the foxes have taken several lambs in the two fields infront of my house. Four have been trapped but the farmer came out the other day to see a fox draging a lamb out of the field! Stupid law needs to go!
Vote, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Well the percentage above says it all,and yes im a hunter! Ban the ban!
david bailey, Thursday, 23 April 2009
one of the best days of my life following hounds im no toff just a working man ill take my grand child with me as long as i live
foxy joe, Thursday, 23 April 2009
the foxes would be better with the ban back in force
bollics, Thursday, 23 April 2009
ban the ban
tracy, Thursday, 23 April 2009
@maggie if you read beths post she was the one that wanted us to die of exhaustion and be ripped apart and getting closer only retaliated to that.
Mandamaid, Thursday, 23 April 2009
The 2 words - brutality...birthright - seem couched in a way that only 1 side of an argument is sought: hardly a consensus,or an attempt at an even-handed debate. I'd love to know who instigated the question, and why the question is being put to users of the tube in London. Perhaps, to balance the scales, a better choice might have been brutality v. management of the countryside (the latter argument is well recognised but conveniently discounted in the metropolis).
The use of "birthright" in today's world is laughable and smacks of serfs cowering beneath the thumb of a feudal overlord: it displays an immensely cloistered and ill-informed view of 2009. Times have changed and people are (and should be) accepted for what they are rather than who they are. But...any moment now I'll be told my landlord operates a policy of droit de seigneur.
.
Mandamaid, Thursday, 23 April 2009
The 2 words - brutality...birthright - seem couched in a way that only 1 side of an argument is sought: hardly a consensus,or an attempt at an even-handed debate. I'd love to know who instigated the question, and why the question is being put to users of the tube in London. Perhaps, to balance the scales, a better choice might have been brutality v. management of the countryside (the latter argument is well recognised but conveniently discounted in the metropolis).
The use of "birthright" in today's world is laughable and smacks of serfs cowering beneath the thumb of a feudal overlord: it displays an immensely cloistered and ill-informed view of 2009. Times have changed and people are (and should be) accepted for what they are rather than who they are. But...any moment now I'll be told my landlord operates a policy of droit de seigneur.
.
Maggie, Thursday, 23 April 2009
As for free range being cruelty free anyway - I'm sure everyone is aware that free range chickens go through the same slaughter process and transport as battery, and that chicks bred for egg laying are sorted in exactly the same way as battery chicks with the male chicks being put into a big blender alive because they are surplus to requirements. Indeed there was some research discussed on Countryfile last week that suggests free range chickens are under just as much stress as their battery counterparts in enriched cages, and I guess if evil Mr Foxy Loxy is really as bad as you say and your coups are as shonky as they appear to be - then the hens have got an extra stressor to put up with, haven't they?
Maggie, Thursday, 23 April 2009
As for the whole free range chicken thread - well like I've said before - individuals get fox proof! Yep it does exist - amazing world of modern science and design, and as a wholescale operation fox losses make absolutely no economic difference anyway. While I commend free range farming, I cannot see how you can swap the suffering of one species for another - it's just self-defeatist, the whole point of free ranging is then dismantled. As for increasing free range to the point that all our egg and chicken production occurs this way - well if you are going to produce enough to feed the nation you would a) have to turn over virtually every last square inch of land to free range chicken farming - which would mean no other meat, no crops, no vegetables, no fruit and no biofuels - also no areas of ecological interest. Or you could go for the option that I'm sure most hunters would be able to grab some jollies out of and go for a cull of 30 million human beings to reduce the need! Free range is a nice idea in theory but would only ever work wholesale in the cases laid out above.
Maggie, Thursday, 23 April 2009
So very nice to see the pros once again directing their vitriol towards humans- so Getting Closer wants Beth to be knifed and has expressed the belief that it will inevitably be an immigrant who does this or a young person!. please pros - instead of trying to box yourself into a world that existed a couple of centuries ago, step into the new world - it really is quite nice and enlightening once you get here! You'll learn that not every person in an ethnic minority is about to do you in and rob you of 'your' country (may I remind you built mainly from the sweat and toil of the ancestors of those ethnic minorities), and neither is every youngster. You see not everybody in the country enjoys hurting other living creatures.
andrew, Thursday, 23 April 2009
foxes are worse off since hunting was banned! Bring it back
Sue, Thursday, 23 April 2009
This is like most things - you need the facts before you can vote. Ensure you know the reasons why before you object to things that are not fully understood. If you have seen a sheep with its stomach ripped out or a chicken running around without its head with othes lying around and only one taken for food - how would you react especially when this is part of your livelyhood !!
Ol, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Foxes are vermin and must be controlled or eliminated. Last summer I lost all my free range laying chickens to foxes. So that put me out of business in eggs. Its not worth starting again. Hunting is a legimite activity and it is only misguided folk who probably know nothing about the country side who try to ban it. It's the most humane way to dispatch a fox.
ashley, Thursday, 23 April 2009
and yes you getting closer idiot knows everything about it right ? whatever , hope someone shoots you by mistake while you hunting , good luck
flower, Thursday, 23 April 2009
yes , animal populations can be controlled without causing suffering so why do we hunt and cause suffering ? silly stuff
Getting closer, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Ashley
your full of S**T pet most of the anti population havent a clue so i think they have no rite to vote!
ashley, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I totally agree with beth actually, there are more humane ways to control animal populations
Getting closer, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Beth
Your off your rocker and i hope your the next knife victim to an imagrint or youth on the streets for no reason at all if you dont know your country life dont diss it, all the meet you get is raised and what for to be killed and eaten at least we are hunting wild pests and controlling the numbers across the country! We have a right to hunt Rats and Rabbits they are pritty harmless what 100 rats do in a day a fox will do twice the damage in 30 mins!
Ashleigh, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I chose birthright. Although the picture is very misleading as this is not a pictures taken whilst hunting. This is merely a scene from a show!
Mike Bilbo, Thursday, 23 April 2009
This is an efficient means of pest control contrary to some peoples belief. Others would prefer the predators go completely unchecked in their populations and destroy huge numbers of livestock and I guess would rather they be subjected to poision and die a slow miserable death while their insides hemorage out of control or be shot with a 12 bore and suffer up in some hedgerow waiting to die that way. City dwellers enjoy their fine woolen garmets but have no idea what the farming community must go through to provide for them. Get rid of the ban and get back to sensible hunts. It is good for the economy as well.
Griff Griffiths, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I have never in my life been fox hunting nor can I ever see the time when I will but will defend the right of those that want to.
beth c, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I think each sentient being has a birth right to be respected by the next , and since humans are superior animals we should try and help the not so evolved species not take advantage of them which is what hunting is. We do not need it for survival we do it because we enjoy it even if we cause suffering.
So to all of you hunters I hope you get hunted down and die of exhaustion or get ripped apart and be ok with it because its someones birth right ...
Seriously lets be humane , arent you ashamed of yourselves for causing all this suffering ? discusting
tommy, Thursday, 23 April 2009
im for,
earthdog, Thursday, 23 April 2009
why do we still have this issue, and why have we still got a draconian govenment, itsnot a hobby, its a way of life.
Tony Blair, Thursday, 23 April 2009
The ban should be banned let the country men/women keep there lifes because without hunting its destroyed!
steve s, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Does hunting cause suffering to foxes? If you believe it does then surely you also believe that halal slaughtering practises are cruel and barbaric. Consider why the animal rights movement have nothing to say about cruelty inflicted daily in the name of religion and everything to say about a longstanding tradition of this country.
I challenge anyone to go hunting, whether it be foxes or any other type of vermin, using traditional methods of control and see for yourself if there is any uneccesary suffering.
WAKE UP and see that the british people are taking second place to johnny come latelys that are in some instances still breaking in thier first pair of shoes!
ban the ban, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Lets fight to get the ban lifted
GC, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Neither. This is a typically unhelpful question. Personally i'm all for hunting, which is not cruel and is a legitimate activity.
Dorothy Collins, Thursday, 23 April 2009
foxesdo have tobe culled and the only sure way of not leaving a wounded fox is hunting. Natural and instantaneous.
Not too far away, Thursday, 23 April 2009
G
Answer is no! Read it or dont i realy couldn't care less.
Not too far away, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Heres an example of the country we live in,i no longer drink in the local town full of knife crime,drugs,murderers,alot of kiddy fiddlers and gangs of youths! One night i was jumped by 16 youths wearing hooded tops ive a scare from my eye all they way down to my neck from a bottle which was smashed over me more than once now i had to have plastic surgery and the police never followed up the case yet they know nearly all the youths,i got £550 pounds compensation and left with a scare for life and not one of the youths went to jail they said the drugs they took angered them,i did not ask or confront these people it just happend for nothing,justify that???
Was lamping about two months ago on permission clearing away Rabbits which were destroying crops etc and on my way back to the car a police maverick turned up stopped me and the WOW i nearly fainted this is at 1am in morning and another 4 cars and two riot vans block me in that was over 14 officers there now how many other people fell prey to the youths etc when 14 officers come for one man and his dog enjoying a run out! Many people its just disgraceful!
B, Thursday, 23 April 2009
How many times are you going to post that?
george n harby, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Democracy is two chickens and a fox arguing about lunch. Ask the fox !
G, Thursday, 23 April 2009
@Not too far way Is there any chance of you using some punctuation so that the rest of us can actually understand you?
Not too far away, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Well what can you say ive been hunting all my life and im young and foxes need to be controlled,the damage they do to lambs, and chicken who cant fight back.So we step in too keep things under controll and like you lot thats never even seen the damage ill keep hunting regardless within the law or not and if a get caught doing anything wrong because im sure they will find something to pin on us ill stand in court and ask my charge to be reduced to MURDER! Our country has gone that low and the ban should be banned! What we should be doing as a country is lifting the ban carry on with country life and get all the rapists,kiddy fiddlers,druggys,murderers,prostitutes,imagrints etc etc etc off the streets you decide the fox or your child or family member to knife crime or drugs etc all you lowlife against us country hunter i hope you feel lonely and one day fall prey to one of the druggys drink drivers blar blar blar on our streets!
george n harby, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Democracy is two chickens and a fox arguing about lunch. Ask the fox !
A Fox, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Fox numbers need to be controlled due to the destruction of livestock/gamebirds. Since the ban came in I have recieved more requests for foxes to be controlled. The remaining methods of control are the more efficient ones. The ban is likely to reduce the number of foxes and as such your ban has had a negative effect on the fox population!
Since it is now illeagal to use dogs to control foxes in a way where, lets face it the fox has a reasonable chance of escape. I now either squeek them in then shoot them or just block up the holes and turn the ignition, when this is done nothing survies.
woody, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I live in a village and the amount of livestock that is lost to fox is very large . A friend in the village lost a cat sometime ago and it was found in a fox set not to far from were she live , so its not just farm livestock thats taken .also your cuddlie cat !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Garypco west wales, Thursday, 23 April 2009
our right as country men are being taken away from us day by day.....its fine to watch a dvd or go to the cinemas to see people being raped tortured and murdered...yet the country way of life that kees children busy in theyre spare time and keeps them off the street away from crime and drugs seems a good thing.... halal slaughter and kosher meat is another ok thing to do as its in the name of religion...its fine to slit the throat of a breathing animal and drain it of its life in around three to five muinets yet a 70lb dog is not allowed to kill a 14lb fox wich is killed almost instantly...in a circumstance that allows its adrenaline to flow where it feels little pain...
this govermant and the way some of the uneducated muppets who know nothing of how life and the country works need to stay with what they know leave the country ways to be managed by the country people themselves weve managed for long enough so i imagine we can continue!!! nothing and i mean NOTHING will stop us hunting and living OUR way of life!!!!
Freddie, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I have lost 5 free range Nolfolk Bronze turkeys, 2 hens and 3 lambs in the last 6 months alone to a fox, that is 700 - 800 pounds to me. Why can't they eat rabbits, there are more than enough of these and leave my livestock alone. They need to be culled 365 days a year.
Foxgun Tom, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I voted birthright, yet I'm a townie by birth!! being born in the east end of Glasgow over 50 years ago. I moved as a child to the countryside at the age of 8 years and grew up in a rural environment but still have extremly close links my urban roots.
I've been involved in many rural pursuits over the years, ferreting, lurcher/terrier work, falconry/hawking and I've been hunting with dogs since the age of 8/9 years, Hunting with dogs is perceived as cruel by the urbanites because of a lack of their knowledge on the subject and well prepared anti hunt campaigns by animal right groups? As soon as a city dweller has a problem with rats the first thing they do is contact their local environmental officer who sends someone along with traps and poisen, both of which can cause suffering, why is this morally acceptable? Why when there is an insect infestation no emotion is shown and every chemical means is used to eradicate the offenders again we find this acceptable and yet when you get a pack of dogs pursuing a fox and a lead hound kills a fox instantly there's uproar?. Most of the ill informed take offence at the breaking up at a fox (when the rest of the pack intervene) before this happens the fox is allready dead, you can't be cruel or cause suffering to a corpse!! I was instrumental in drawing up the code of practice for shooting fox's while hunting with hounds here in Scotland, and I can tell you categorically more fox's are killed now!! and many more must, ultimately end up wounded/injured due to gunshot wounds. At least when it was just hunting with hounds the fox was caught and killed instantly or escaped, (survival of the fittest) I take no pleasure in killing any animal, I do it to provide a natural food scource for me and my family. I also carry out pest control for farmers who suffer financial loss due to fox predation a knock on effect of that, could be higher food prices for the consumer (then see what public reaction is?). Hunting with dogs is environmentally friendly, totally natural as its practiced by many different species wild hunting dogs throughout the world
Tom Chalmers (aka) Foxgun Tom
d sykes, Thursday, 23 April 2009
the fox is only a type of vermin and hunting is a form of pest control .if the galloped around in red coats huning rats who would bother
Will Jim, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Jayne
I live in west Wales on a farm, and I enjoy hunting. The local hunt in this area has seen evidence of foxes which have been released in to the wild. This includes foxes which have been castrated, and lately we have caught foxes which have their glads removed from under their tails, so that the hounds can not follow their scent. We have even shot one fox with a dog's collar on it!!!
charlotte, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Can i just point out that foxes are not classed as vermin , they actually control vermin! No need to add more i agree with drew and maggie
VH, Thursday, 23 April 2009
My answer is "neither" - it's not a birthright because considerable responsibilities come with the practice of hunting - and if you don't embrace those, you do not have the right to hunt; nor do I think it is brutal, given the way nature behaves across all the upper layers of the food pyramid. I have hunted many times and would happily do so again, with a responsible hunt.
David, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I defend the right of these people to live the way they wish for the same reason that I would defend the right of people to hunt.
What I won't put up with is them trying to impose their values on the rest of the society, the benefits of which they are reaping whilst attacking the traditions that have in part formed the very society that they are railing against. They are like spoiled children who are only able to exist because the society and culture that has fed and clothed them tolerates their temper tantrums.
Why is it that seemingly large proportions of the great unwashed who actively protest against these things are among the least productive members of our society? Yet put most of them in a situation where they had to survive without a supermarket and most would starve. *shrugs* I guess it's a symptom of a free society so the necessity of tolerating the illogical has to be a good thing.
Gill, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Hunting is my birthright, so leave me alone to enjoy it, BAN THE BAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Marcus, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Drew,
I can see from your comments that you want every animal in the countryside killed to prevent the waste of precious water, do you wear leather? use butter, milk and eggs? would you see an end to organic farming using farm yard manure and more chemicals being used instead? I think the argument has moved away from the hunting issue here. I accept you may have a different opinion and I respect that even if I do not agree but the British countryside is the way it is because of the excellent work our farmers do, if you really want to get angry with someone try getting angry with Tesco!
reggie, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Having just read all these comments - lets get back to "who put this out?" it is a loaded question. Birthright can be misconstrued.
but of course it's our right - freedom of choice is our right and don't forget this government is gradually whittling away all our rights and the sooner we can get back to traditional values in every sense the better
St George's Day today - come on, stand up and be counted, we signed up to fight this ban and we will see it through for the good of England
and thank you Martin for pointing out the crap photo!
Bonita, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Perhaps if inner city gang members went hunting in the countryside and were encouraged to learn about real hunting, real fishing, real shooting, and the behinds the scenes wellfare and game keeping, they'd be less likely to get their rocks off stabbing some poor innocent person !
I believe that the labour government have wrecked this country during their reign and with that in mind my husband and I are leaving the country because there's nothing now worth staying for!
James, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Pest control is necessary Hounds are the fastest and most humane way to despatch a fox
Enjoying that process as a sport is a fairly unpleasant thing to do but the legislation behind the hunting ban is long-winded, complex, unconstitutional and ineffective. If this hadn't been banned hunting would have died out gradually under consensus. Now it's had a publicity campaign.
Anti-hunt, anti-ban
Drew, Thursday, 23 April 2009
David,
".........into the animals I care for (and also eat)"
Do you "care for them" when they are hanging upside, terrified (probably suffering from diarrhoea) and about to have their throats cut? Weird thought process.
Ok, of you want to look at omnivorous animals, look at the bear, look at the dog, naturally omnivorous and have long sharp teeth for tearing up flesh. Where are yours ?
What do these hunt people "put in to the countryside"? As meat-eaters like yourself, they are taking out much more from the countryside by being part of an industry where precious water is wasted on feeding animals (990 litres to produce 1KG of beef), where millions of tonnea of antibiotic-laden, hormone-laden, heavy metal-laden, animal faeces is destroying the soil, running into the rivers and the sea, polluting the water and polluting the fish along the way.
Or are you going to tell me they are all vegans !
Will, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Notting Hill - "we believe that carrots have rights" "that Carrot died and you murdered it"
Brilliant!
Sarah, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Birthright
Linegeist - Anglesey, Thursday, 23 April 2009
When I see anti-hunt protesters foregoing the eating of meat, eschewing the murder of flies in their homes and walking barefoot (plastic shoes are out - global warming don'tcha know?) in order to spare helpless animal lives, then I may have a little more patience with their arguments.
Until then foxes remain, in my world at least, murderous and rapacious killers who take thousands of helpless lambs each year, decimate chicken flocks and kill household pets. They often kill far more than they can possibly need to survive - presumably for the sake of killing.
Hunting foxes is a centuries-old tradition that has been part of the British countryside since men first rode horses over here. It's a tradition that kind've deserves better than ritual sacrifice on the altar of political correctness or to serve a politically motivated agenda.
denny mclaugh, Thursday, 23 April 2009
born into hunting and will keep on doing what i was born into
Jonathan Cape Town, Thursday, 23 April 2009
This is not the appropriate question in terms of addressing this issue. Hunting has played an intrinsic role in the evolution on the human species. It continues to contribute to conservation and the right to unt, within responsible paramaters should be protected.
John B, Thursday, 23 April 2009
It's my birthright
Nick Burton, Thursday, 23 April 2009
This is England, a land of tradition and freedom.
David, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Drew, as someone who grows their own meat as well as hunting small game for food I manage perfectly well without injecting things into the animals I care for (and also eat).
Apologies... I have incisors, and canines, and molars in my mouth. I understood that incisors and canines are for doing the cutting and ripping work while the molars are what I use for chewing with. If you're going to be a pedant at least get it right.
I have three types of teeth because evolution has dictated that I am an omnivore - not a herbivore. The animals you've quoted physiology on are not designed by nature to eat vegetables. I am... and I like some vegetables when I tuck into a rabbit stew or nice bit of lamb, thank you very much.
I don't hunt foxes from horseback, but I've shot one or two in my time. I would defend the right of those who hunt to enjoy their sport, as they put far more into the countryside than you ever will.
Barrie, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Birthright most definitely !
Maggie you ask.....
"Where is your visual proof that foxes kill lambs?" and state that.... " I've not seen any to date". You then go on to draw all sorts of conclusions from from your own lack of awareness and knowledge.
THE TRUTH IS:
Maybe you've not looked hard enough, or in the right place (you'll certainly not find it in any RSPCA leaflets). However if you really would like to see some "visual proof", maybe you'd care to visit the National Working Terrier Federation's website (links aren't permitted on here) and click on the pest control section. It may enable you to revise some of your ideas and conclusions. But I won't hold my breath.
Jayne you state that.....
"Well now..... the RSPCA have been collecting foxes made ill by the fact that they are mainly living on the rubbish and detritus in towns and cities, and dumping them in "safe release" areas which they have identified as being the foxes natural habitat. "
That is what's called an 'urban myth'- the RSPCA have never actually done this at all. In fact, this is a direct quote from their website
"Additionally, moving foxes from one area to another is not appropriate and not considered humane."
THE TRUTH IS:
Whilst that may be the RSPCA's current stance they've not only released foxes, but have also published letters in the press requesting suitable sites. It's not an urban myth, simply a well documented fact.
The reason for the RSPCA's present stance may well be due to the fact that the practice was both cruel and of questionable legailty. Nevertheless it is a fact and definitely NOT fiction.
Andy, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I am an animal lover too! However I do recognise the need for vermin control. Hunting is part of British Heritage. I would welcome it's return.
John McCracken, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I am an animal lover and I don't even agree with horse or dog racing so making a choice here was a no brainer.
Drew, Thursday, 23 April 2009
David, I pity you.
Let me tell you a few things to stop you from humiliating yourself in the future :
1) The incisors in my mouth and your mouth ARE for chewing raw vegetables. Carnivorous animals do not chew meat, they break it down into small pieces and swallow it.
2) Every hunting animal's mouth (lion, alligator etc.) is proportionately larger to it's head than any herbivorous animal (cow, horse, human, YES human)
3) All hunting animals have short intestines as the meat goes rapidly through the system. Humans have yards of intestines and small pieces of meat nestle in the folds. Why do you suppose people have colonic irrigation ?
You go and enjoy your hormone, antibiotic, adrenaline filled piece of decomposing flesh. Save a place for me in heaven !
Born Again, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I'm always amazed how seemingly intelligent people are suckered by this "ripped to pieces" sensationalist argument. How would you control them ? Shoot them and make no distinction betwen the young and healthy or old and infirm ? Poison them and risk other animals ?
Next time you enjoy your free-range chicken, organic lamb, pheasant, fresh wild rabbit or barn-laid eggs think about fox control in the UK. Or would you rather shift the problem to another country and ship your meat halfway around the world on fossil fuels ?
Get real people, animals have to die for us to eat meat - it's always been that way and always will be - and this includes predator control.
PS, before you ask, I don't hunt foxes - no need for me because I grow fruit trees instead.
Chris, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Why does status justify killing a fox? How does that proove nobilitiy? If pest control is the issue then their are less violent ways to prevent foxes killing live stock. Are there any facts tp proove that fox hunting controls fox populations?
Drew, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Can I just point out that us "townies" do not have to come from the countryside to understand barbarism. It doesn't matter if it's in a field or in an a council estate, suffering for no reason can never be justified, human or animal. The reasons given are laughable : Pest Control : oh how considerate of these blood-junkies to free up their saturdays, highly commendable. Does all that weird 'smearing blood on the face' stuff still go on at the evening dinner? Bizarre !
David, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Jayne.... they may not put that in their propaganda which you refer to. I'm merely talking about the reality that happens. The reality that I observe. The reality that I live with. The reality that local farmers have asked me to put the poor starving foxes out of their misery.
Are you claiming that the RSPCA are taking animals made sick by their lifestyle, caring for them into health, and then putting them back into the environment that ruined their health in the first place?
I'm talking reality here girl... not propaganda pumped out at the ignorant by the ignorant.
Drew Davidson, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Have you seen the mess a fox makes of new born lambs or pheasant pens and also the damage rabbits do to crops ?
David, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Drew, you may not be a hypocrite like tha vast majority of anti hunting and animal liberationists. What you -are- is someone advocating that their way of life is superior and should be followed.
Do you have incisors in your mouth? Perhaps you could elucidate what reason evolution has put them there for? I strongly suspect that it isn't for chewing vegetation.
Perhaps you could even tell us why the appendix is a redundant organ in our bodies.
I will not become a vegan for a number of reasons. I eat well but rely on work and exercise to keep my body healthy, rather than poor diet. My body is evolved through thousands of years to eat meat. My eyes are positioned in the front of my head to give me binocular vision which is superior for a predator on a land based scenario.
These are just idle thoughts as I drink grain products, having supped on a rather delectable piece of rare steak this evening.
Jayne, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
"Well now..... the RSPCA have been collecting foxes made ill by the fact that they are mainly living on the rubbish and detritus in towns and cities, and dumping them in "safe release" areas which they have identified as being the foxes natural habitat. "
That is what's called an 'urban myth'- the RSPCA have never actually done this at all. In fact, this is a direct quote from their website
"Additionally, moving foxes from one area to another is not appropriate and not considered humane."
Try actually getting your facts right before shooting your mouth off David. It makes me laugh that so many pro hunters refer to those who do not support it as 'townies' who do not understand the countryside. Just another weak argument by people who cannot even be bothered to do the most basic research on the subject.
Reynard, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
@ Red In Tooth And Claw - "Must be something in it since they survive cruel winters and road death."
Please explain how the humble vulpes vulpes manages to survive road deaths. Is it something to do with the popular concept of reincarnation, are they invulnerable to speeding vehicles, or do they, upon vehicular impact, perhaps ascend to a higher plane of existence?
Must dash, the tofu's almost ruined and I have a full bushel of lentils to knit before bedtime.
Toodle-pip, old chap.
David, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Well now..... the RSPCA have been collecting foxes made ill by the fact that they are mainly living on the rubbish and detritus in towns and cities, and dumping them in "safe release" areas which they have identified as being the foxes natural habitat.
Regretfully these foxes were starving now, and as they had been reared in urban environments they never learned to hunt anything more mobile than a bin bag. So rather than hunt rabbits they go for lambs as these are in a controlled environment and can't get away.
Luckily the RSPCA release area is in an area where I have shooting permission and a few grains of .223 puts them out of the misery that the anti-hunting lobby and RSPCA bleeding hearts brigade have placed them in.
Karen, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Talk about propaganda!!! Where did they take their photo? Not on any hunting field I've ever been in, looks like a nice day at Hickstead. Lets be a least authentic if we intend to have serious debate.
Maggie, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Drew - Charlotte I completely agree. In an age where we can send men into space and take pictures of people in their gardens from a satellite orbiting the earth, build bomb proof vehicles and maximum security prisons where we can contain humans who have far bigger brains than foxes, but yet no - they still insist it's impossible to build a fox proof pen! Amazing the shit that gets trotted out, or maybe some farmers really are living a couple of centuries back. If I can do it - Charlotte can do it, one of my hill farming mates can do it then guess what .....................drum roll please and wait for the gasps of astonishment .................................it can be done! Just takes a bit of hard work and thought.
charlotte, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Tottaly agree drew, \i have lambs/ chikens, and have lost none to foxes,Get your fencing sorted!! Foxes keep the rodent population down on my land, they do more good than harm, and mange is a very easy thing to cure by the way, my dog had it took a few drops of stronghold and it went! Live stock is only suffering because people let it!
Drew, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
All these people talking about foxes getting through fences to kill chickens, get better and more secure fences. What are these foxes carrying : Boltcutters ?!
charlotte, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
well mtcguy apparently it is ok to break the law so i will carry on!
Matthew, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
All hunts in the UK run because it is part of a tradition and livelyhood for many people. The next thing groups such as LACS will want to ban is all hunting even falconry because it is unfair control of rabbits. The only reason hunts work is to control the numbers and keep a healthy population. If the hunts didnt carry on then groups such as wildlife aid at leatherhead would be over run by foxes with mange and road injuries.
Phil, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Peter - quite agree with your comment.
The word Birthright is wrong - most of the rural community would probably use the word necessity.
Foxhunting has been carreid out for hundreds of years by farmers, young riders, old riders and all manner of folk. The Lord and Ladie image is and has always been a bit of a myth and hype for the event
The fox population is growing rapidly, partly due to the lack of hunting. As a result farmers and livestock keepers are suffering on the small and large scale.
Hunting should be reinstated before this problem gets out of control.
Clifftop, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
I live on the Merseyside and Cheshire border, I'm a city boy but my heart is in the country.
We should respect the needs and traditions of farmers and country dwellers. Farmers are the providers of our country. Despite the huge Hypermarket companies dictating prices to the farmers, we need to support the farmers; support them and learn from them. When (not IF) this country implodes on itself, we will look to them for our survival.
Red In Tooth And Claw, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
My Dad hunted and farmed all his life and he used to doff his cap whenever he saw a fox. He said they are far more clever than humans. Must be something in it since they survive cruel winters and road death.
It is only man that causes them problems not by hunting them but by not hunting them extraordinarily enough.
Peter, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
As a fox-hunter , I certainly will not vote "brutality" , however "birthright" is not the right question.
This question and photo in itself imply a certain misunderstanding about hunting.
The word "Birthright" suggests a class distinction , giving the right for members of "old" hunting families to continue in the hunting tradition. The reality is that the majority of people who hunt are not born into hunting familes, but take it up as an equine activity.
Secondly , the photo looks like a group of showjumpers, it would appear that the photo was chosen because of the red jackets being seen as the typical impression of hunting. I feel that this photo fortifies the general wrong impression of hunting being done by a bunch of rich snobs in red jackets, which the word "birthright" implies..
.
Foxhuntingalltheway, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Fox hunting is GOOD!!! Foxes are just annoying, especially if you find them in your garden or eating your chickens or game. This ban just means that the nummber of foxes will continue to rise, but foxhunting helps keep that number stable and low!!
Robin, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
The fairest way of controling the fox as he is either free to run again or caught. Yet again the way this comment is put the argument is about class and not the hounds, wish the folk paying for these adverts would look at it objectivly and not by class as hunting folk are from many different back grounds and folow hounds for many different reasons.
Little Lawyer, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
The point is everyone should have their own choice. If you don't want to go hunting, than you don't have to. But if you want to go, then that should be allowed. We all have hunting in us or we wouldn't be here.
Some lady said hounds are forced to hunt and get starved before a hunt. hahahah...thump...sorry, just fell off my chair. Believe me love, those hounds hunt foxes because it is exactly, 100%, what they want to do! That is why it is so impressive! You obviously haven't ever been hunting then. At a meet hound's sterns (tails) hardy stop wagging, surely you see that means they are very happy chappies.
As for starving, what a load of balls. They are supreme athletes. They run miles in a day and then are feed when they are home. They eat well and are hungry after the exercise. Much like a marathon runner coming in and having a sports drink and making some food after a race. Only, hounds prefer raw cow...
Dunk, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
It is not about arguing between one another it is about the divide between country life and city life experiences and educating each other. Though research of speaking with people i have found that some country people would like to see that mechanisms in farming are changed back to the ways they were so that extensive farming of chickens for large scale consumption (cities) are replaced and the food source has a more humane life than being fast grown and not see the light of day!!
Having lost 5 lambs to foxes in one night i can see the benefit of hunting. I dont believe the fox should be dug out and do believe it should be hunted and then shot humanely. the hunting environment is a pastime such as shooting and when dont correctly benefits the countryside as a whole. it brings valuable income and employment and ensures that britain does have some form of national identity.
Ultimately there are many views in the topic but the choice in participation should reside with the land owners, riders, dog handlers and people that know about what they are talking about whilst trying to be sensitive to the feelings that those that dont.
Drew, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
We are in such a messed-up world. Not only is it WRONG to hunt foxes, it is also WRONG to be sitting on the horse's back in the first place !
It's about rights. The foxe's right to NOT to be chased and torn apart and the horse's right to NOT have someone sitting on it's back whether it can physically take it or not.
By the way, I am not a hypocrite, I am a vegan which is what we all need to be to stop environmental destruction, world hunger and early mortality.
Louise, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
I have no problem with hunting, when my husband has just lost 16 lambs to the fox.
Jason Potts, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
If you like a day at the hunt, or hunting is your livelyhood, then enjoy it.
If you're against hunting, then simply don't do it, and keep away?
What's the problem?
PR, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Way too narrow a view - there's much more to hunting than foxes! It's hunting in general that's EVERYONES birthright.
NGF, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Proved by the Government's own Burns Report NOT TO BE CRUEL.
223rem, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
we live very far north on a croft surrounded by farmland, forest and peat bog.
we only occasionaly see afox trotting across the neighboring field and i have once seen a cub in the field with an inoccent fluffy adorable iccle baby wabbit in its mouth.
conversly our neighbour has had frequent fox trouble resulting in hen loss. we put this down to the smell of our two great danes.
there is no such thing as fox proof anything, the farmers who are lucky enough not to have trouble do so because of mitigating factors, dogs, poor hygiene, a low population in the area etc.
you must never tar other farmers as uncaring when you are merely lucky.
MAGGIE, with reference to yours and toms discussion. there is a BASC deer dogs course and i personaly know a dog trainer who trains dogs for stalking and post stalk tracking. i even own his book. we are less likely to need them though because the majority of uk stalkers (poacher excluded) have greater disaplin when it comes to taking a shot plus we dont take shots at running animals.
jamie donnellan, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
this is a load of crap.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you people need to experience a hunt before you can even begin to say anything!!!!!!!!!! give your heads a wobble and thing about it!!!!!! not alll hunting is on horse back. think of a foot pack before all you townies start saying its for posh snobs. i run with a pack of hounds and i am as common as anything. BRING BACK HUNTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AL, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
I am strongly Pro hunting and very strongly for animal welfare.
If it wasn't for hunting we would have no countryside. It is a vital part of the intricate ecological web which keeps vermin in check and ensures our food supplies. People have become far to detached from coutry life and have some irrational 'fluffy' view of a utopian animal world where all creatures dance around in flowery meadows. Meat does not grow in polystyrene trays and vegtables do not grow in plastic bags.
The species that can be legally hunted in the UK have been chosen due to their negative impact on the environment. In short, these are species which destroy not only property, but also our wildlife. They damage crops and wild plant life and most import in many cases they carry diseases which can be fatal to many other species and in some cases fatal to us. Those who think that hunting is evil, please look at your surroundings and seriously gauge your level of countryside knowledge. Ignorance is the number one cause of the anti hunting movement.
Our countryside is not of natural origin. It has been managed and shaped for tens of thousands of years by people who understand it. If you are not fully engaged with the british countryside 24/7. Working the land and managing the ecology and conservation. They you have no business inflicting your opinions on those who know what they are talking about.
shame on you for being so ignorant that you will destroy the very thing you are trying to protect.
JNR Bishop, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
I fully endorse all the comments of Mr Nick Onslow who has expressed my own opinions.
Tom, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Got it in one Nick.
reluctant hunter, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
This is what we used to do on the mountains and woods of wales. The local farmers with guns would surround a smalish area of wood or rough ground where we knew foxes would be, and then a pack of hounds were then sent in to flush the fox out.95% of the time the fox would be shot dead when he would run through the lines of guns , running away from the hounds.If sometimes he was unfortunatly wounded the hounds would then be able to track the fox and finnish him off to avoid too much suffering for the fox. Was this an acceptable way of using hounds to hunt? It was an extremely boring day as I could go standing in rain all day and never see anything, but the hunt shot 15ish foxes every year, if half of them where female and had 5 cubs each next year there would be 50 foxes.If next year halve of them had 5 cubs you would then have an extra 125 cubs plus the other 50 making 175 hungry foxes, THEN you would see large lamb losses to mr fox !
Nick Onslow, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
The Hunting Act 2004: - has done nothing for animal welfare; - threatens livelihoods in the longer term; - ignores the findings of Lord Burn's Enquiry; - gives succour to animal rights extremists; - is based on political expedience following the Prime Minister's unconsidered response on the television programme Question Time in 1999; - is framed to persecute a large minority who support a traditional activity; - does not command popular support in the country except amongst the uninformed and mal-advised.
CJ, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Got no problem with fox hunting as long as it's properly regulated.
The BBC seem to be quite happy to show wildlife programmes featuring lions/tigers/crocks hunting down, killing and eating other animals. I presume they sbroadcast them because the population enjoy watching them. I find it strange that the 'antis' are not demanding the banning of these programmes.
tracy, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
funny never known a hound to hunt a cow as for them being starved before a hunt what a load of rubbish
Maggie, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
ME - they feed them dead livestock (i.e. things they would naturally chase and hunt but have had the instinct beaten out of them), but starve them before a hunt to make them keener to hunt the fox which they have to be taught to do (I.e. beaten if they go for anything else and rewarded if they don't) - sure shows how unnatural it is.
Maggie, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Tom you are welcome. It's nice to have what you do explained in a nice civil way. I really didn't know about the trail finder thing. Wonderful to have your input on a board full of people who constantly tell me that people who shoot are too incompetent to be charged with the issue of killing animals quickly. What you said all makes sense, and I really don't have a problem with it. In fact I would gladly watch you at work.
If all pros were like you I really don't think many people would have a problem.
Unfortunately it's mainly populated by those who like to, stereotype people to make themselves feel better and take cheap shots at people's spelling - Yes Sarah - I know it should be 'choose' - sorry for my typing error -by the way how did you know I wasn't dyslexic? I'm not but I see you were prepared to take the risk of mocking someone with a disability. But then why doesn't that surprise me coming from someone who gets her kicks out of seeing something less advantaged than herself in pain!
I've had pros take the piss out of dyspraxic people, mentally ill people and more recently call someone a 'filthy, despicable, cretinous, lying, piece of pond life' when she was trying to convince me that her concept of how something could be 'vermin' could never be turned upon a human being!
Sarita, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
The world is cruel, get used to it. Thomas More tried to imagine a Utopia and admitted it could never exist. Surely there is more humanity in trying to understand your fellow man and live with him than in trying to argue him into oblivion. There are good and bad arguments for each side of this debate and that will never change. The sensible, mature way forward is to accept that and move on.
ME, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Mtcguy, if thats true how does she feed her dogs? How does the hunt feed its dogs?
jon law, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
only small ones
mtcguy, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Charlotte you are aware that under DEFRA rules you cannot "encourage or feed any and all forms of canine predators within farm or small holding boundaries"
Read your DEFRA guideline leaflet.
ME, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
You eat foxes then Jon?
jON lAW, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Whether this government likes it or not I have the right to choose what and how to spend my time and I choose to hunt to provide food for my family,free of all the chemicals,costs and preservatives the food companies pump into all forms of meat,I also have the right to protect my livestock from maruading predators like foxes,which i do, daily,we all have the right of choice I use mine with no lack of understanding or bigotry against those who choose not to hunt,this is neither a birth right or brutality,but a simple choice,you either choose to hunt or you don't ,simple as,I do hunt and will always hunt.
charlotte, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
I run a farm and i can tell you it is possible to protect live stock from foxes, I have no problem with them at all, In fact I leave food out for them, hunting is disgusting and protecting live stock is a very poor afrgument, as for wildlife management , it can manage its self if left alone by blood thirsty people!
Freda Fox, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
If you people take umbrage at me doing my chicken/duck/lamb fun killing - I only eat sparingly but do enjoy the excitement -I would rather take my chances with a pack of hounds (whom I have managed to lose on every occasion after a jolly nice run so far) than be maimed by a badly aimed shot or left to endure agony in a trap, which is now happening with great frequency all year round to my friends.
Ken, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Part of my job is to cull foxes and other problematic animal. In so I don't really see the difference to me doing it or a bunch of people in red jackets doing it.
What Tom posted above I agree with is correct. Even with a gun its not 100% you will kill anything. At least with dogs the odds are that the fox will be dead outright or have got away.
bez, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Hunting is in most peoples blood even if they dont want to admit it, even those hunt sabatours who planned their actions against a hunt and carrying out their plans were infact using their hunting instinct, I have hunted and pest contolled for 25+ years and no small minded individual with no actual grasp of whats going on in the countryside is going to stop me, F*ck the ban
Tom, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Maggie....Thank you for your comments. Indeed practice, practice and more practice is the order of the day when anyone considers shooting game. Accuracy is paramount and the standard is to hit a 4" target at 100m.. Sounds easy but when the adrenaline is pumping you really need to concentrate very hard.
My biggest nightmare is taking a shot and wounding an animal.. then having to find it. I don't know anyone who shoots seriously who wouldn't err on the side of caution and not take the shot if they were not certain of a clean kill. As for using bloodhounds well technology has moved us forward in some respects. We have special filters which fit onto flashlights and enable us to see a blood trail. Fortunately I have never had to use one.
There is a course people can do for stalking deer. Only those with an interest will be aware it covers habitat, deer management, hygiene and, of course, safe shooting.
I have to be able to indentify a deer that is ill or has disease. I have to know what precautions to take if the meat is to enter the food chain - even if it's to be given to friends.. And should I shoot a deer that is diseased then the onus is on the hunter (in this case, me) to pass some of the carrcase on to the Public Health Unit and to bury the rest at least one metre deep..!! We take what we do very seriously.
A given area of land can only support so much wildlife. Too many and they all suffer from insufficient food. Conversely a sheep farmer doesn't want rabbits on his land. Six rabbits eat the same ammount of grass as one sheep.. work it out and you'll soon see the costs to the consumer rise - as they did during the last Foot and Mouth epidemic..
Will, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
In the words of a famous huntsman " if you want my hounds, you will have to shoot me"!
I AGREE!
Will, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
I don't care if tyou don't agree with it. I think it should be aa matter of individual choice. It is not a polictical matter. The labour Government wasted Millions on a ban that does not work. 700 hours of our Parliaments time was wasted on this issue. Perhaps that is why we are in this ecomonic crisis now! I invited my labour MP to kennels twice and he ignored my letters. But apparently his expenses breackdown shows he spends £14,000 on correspondence! Well he didn't write back to me. It is this unwillingness to look at the hunting issue and be open to ideas that annoys hunts people. We are a minority and should be protected, not attacked. For me it is about the hounds, they deserve the best and get the best life. Long exercises every day, to hunt as a pack, fresh meat every day and 24 hour care. The ban risks hunting and so risks the hounds - that is not aacceptable. Repeal the act now!
Sarah, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Oh Maggie, if only you knew how brilliant your past tense use of the word "chose" is. Hilarious.
Will, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
I have alway loved hunting. Since I was a very small lad in my village I found it very mysterious. I loved the hounds and the big horses. I loved the colours and language. I wanted to be part of it. I went along and was encouraged to follow but I didn't have a pony. The Master said I should run; and I did. I became fitter and quicker and stronger. I would go to kennels and watch the huge amount of work that it takes to look after 50 hounds. When the ban came in I felt more anger than ever before. This was now my life and I would fight for it. Why should I not go hunting? It should be my choice. I now lay the trail, but I would give anything to have real hunting back! Long live the Hunt!!
Tinkerbelle, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Backs against the wall and fight, isn’t that what being English is all about!
It would not be for me to request a ban on football for instance, a recreational sport that I know nothing about. I may indeed have opinions on the Hillsborough Disaster and the pointless lives lost due to hooligans pushing their way over people to view a sport that to my mind doesn’t achieve anything. But unfortunately whilst the declining number of us that go out to work to earn a living to pay for ‘Mr on the dole hooligan’ are hard at work at our desks earning money to pay for him, his Mrs and the 9 children, he is sat on the internet voting against the only sport I enjoy and the only sport I can afford to enjoy after I have paid for him and his internet connection! This has all happen because back in 1997 a few foolish individuals questioned the only party that is capable of running Britain and decided to vote bleeding Labour. Role on the election!
tracy, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
welcome home bev keep up the good work shame you can't take a few antis with you next time
jimbo, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
we lamb indoors here and turn the ewes and lambs out and loose few to foxes, although i have seen foxes after the lambs on one occasion this season and i intend to go out and shoot it, hence doing something about it (whoever posted that about why not do something). I think hunting for food is a birthright, shoot most things you can eat (and some like foxes and rats that you cant) as far as foxhunting goes i feel this is the wrong question to be asking, I quite enjoy beagling, fox hunting, fishing and shooting and feel by far the crulest is fishing from the list but few peole complain about that!!!!
I do find the debate on both sides highly comical, the level of idiocy on both sides is great!!!
Stephen W McCullough, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
All these nay sayers should devote their considerable energies to combatting paedophilia or people trafficking or some such cause and leave decent country people alone, the people involved in country pursuits understand, care for and respect animals far more than most of these so called activists. Anyone who wishes to engage me on this can email me at stephensmailer@googlemail.com. Thanks
Maggie, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Tom your sentiments are to be commended and if you truly respect the animals that you kill and seek to give them the best death possible then I have absolutely no problem with you - and given the choice I would always chose to be stalked by you and shot cleanly than chased in terror, and either torn limb from limb, or once I'd followed my instincts and gone to ground (obviously not that weak or sick then) be dug out, faced with snapping terriers and even snappier terriermen, and then to be thrown to the hounds. I'd chose you every time - I've seen people shooting (I have friends that shoot), the animal had no idea it was being stalked, and no idea the bullet was coming. You can't compare a minimum of 17 minutes terror and exhaustion proceeded by a good tearing apart to death in an instant. And there's the jolly old fun that can be had in a good morning's cubbing isn't there - where young viable foxes are penned into a covert and forced into the jaws of the hounds - and you are telling me that in that situation only one hound gets to them first -what would the point of that be when you do it to teach the new hounds to hunt foxes instead of their natural prey. What a crock of old shit! If only more hunters carried the sentiments of Tom!
And before you start harping on about wounded animals - you've got to be a pretty crap shot to wound if you are using the right equipment and shouldn't be doing it in the first place, and given that it can never be ruled out 100% why not train bloodhounds to track the wounded animal like they do in Germany. Never ceases to amaze me how much further down the evolutionary line our European neighbours are sometimes in all sorts of issues! Of course you'll nit pick at that option won't you?! :-)
Sam Hamson, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
This is clearly a fabricated picture not an actual hunting scene. Missing hair nets and platts, show hats not hunting head gear are amongst the obvious points. What a load of rubbish on top of being a waste of money!!
MEEEE, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
People don't know enough about hunting. They pre-judge it mainly people in cities and towns but they don't just kill foxes for the sake of it. From a riding point of veiw hunting is amazing and even when following it's great! After all, people are hardly going to stop wild animals killing their prey as that's the way the food chain works so people would never stop hounds hunting foxes! ITS LIFE! If things really got that bad think about all the hounds that would have to be put down because they didnt have a job. People think that we're all posh snobs and yes you do get some people that are a bit stuck up but you get stuck up people anywhere. Hunting is a tradition so why break it? and things are getting out of hand now people blame the hunts for bad behaviour but its the anti's that come out and stir things that cause trouble. To be honesty they should be busy with thier own lives not interfeering with stuff that they dont have a clue about!
FIGHT THE BAN!
Bev, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Cheers mate 1st Battalion The Rifles 1 RIFLES
Loony Tunes, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Love Nature HUG A TREE,
ban the BaN
Tom, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Welcome home Bev. Well done....
(ex QMSI, Border Regt)
Basil Brush, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
I love going hunting and it is a wonderful art. Watching the hounds work is a pleasure and also the natural selection of one animal catching a weak link in another species is totally natural. In Africa you often see lions catching young or sick antelopes and the foxes that tend to be caught first are the weakest of their breed.
Having hunted for 25 years I have virtually never seen a fox being killed as it is not the spectacle that people seem to think. The fox does not wait for the hounds and all the followers to gather round and watch!
We live in a ridiculous world now that if someone does not like something then they call for it to banned. I smoke and the ban has caused so much damage to local pubs that many are unsustainable now and every village cannot support a no smoking restaurant which is what they effectively have become. The unjust ban on hunting is so irrelevant and poor legislation that is must be overthrown and consigned to history with the labour party....
Remember the rights of a minority!
Boom boom
Bev, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Actually Garry I have just returned from a 14 month stint in Afghanistan. I have 2 weeks leave until I go out to Germany. After not being with my family for over a year, I really do think I am entitled to browse positive sites like this. To date, I have seen roughly 40 corpses including children who have been torn to pieces through ammo fire. It's a little different to fox hunting believe me. Thank you for your assumption that pro hunt people are lazy and childish. I rather like to think I have done something with my life - GET IT INTO PERSPECTIVE
Tom, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
So you have the time too to post then Garry, not working today? Not contributing to the economy?? Your argument is so thin it's transparent. Nothing short of a full-on class war would temper your words eh.. Hunting alone contributes over £1 BILLION in revenue in the UK... or is that too unpleasant a thought for you?
Go out to your local park and hug a tree.. you know you want to....
Tom, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
You want cruel? how about UK forces having to pay an average of £500 per man/woman for kit they should be issued with as of right..!!
I don't hunt foxes with dogs but I do shoot fox, deer and other vermin. I fully support the rights of people to hunt with dogs but I wont personally do it. I prefer the one shot, one kill method. It is my duty, as a trained hunter, to minimise the suffering of ANY animal I shoot be it deer or the much hated rat. Those who know nothing of hunting have no idea in the slightest how the balance of nature gives, in the main, the edge to the animal. Get your stalking skills wrong and you'll have nothing to shoot at.
Garry, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Nice to see the majority of posters here are pros - happily posting throughout the day. And you call antis jobless scum! Hilarious - why don't you all get off your lazy fat arses and do something that actually contributes to our flagging economy instead of sitting stamping your feet and pushing out your childish lips because you can't get your kicks from torturing small animals any more - got one answer get another hobby - or better a job! you bunch of economically useless, time wasting idiots
Macartney, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Do you think this is a wise way to spend my money? (Well the little I have left after Heather took most of it!) What a girl.........
Bev, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Thank you Tracey - that made me smile today!
Tracey Green, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
I am a city dweller who supports fox hunting having prepared a thesis for my doctorate on wild mammmal survival in the UK. There is no doubt that the little old ladies who are the most common followers of hounds would not continue if hunting was cruel.
Tracey Green, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Bear baiting cock fighting and bull fighting are all clearly cruel activities which do nothing for the aprticipating species. Since the abolition of fox hunting the fox population has suffered badly due to vigorous control by land managers.
Losa, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Bev, I seriously agree with that. It would be an intersting split
Losa, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Yes you will say If you witnessed it why didnt u do anything.
I turned up to feed these ducks in the morning and the fox was just gone, as he jumped the fence as i drove up.
Bev, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
It would be interesting to see a break down of the lifestyles of thoses voting i.e country living or City Living i.e those in the know and those who are not
Rosie, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Jenny, actually yes, we do lamb inside. I said after lambing time, when the sheep are in the fields. But as an experienced farmer Im sure you will already be aware that some farmers lamb outside, especcially hill farmers. And i doubt that it would be viable to put your wonderful fences all over the highlands and hills of northumbria. Again, actually yes, I and other farmers know that its foxes mauling lambs because we have seen them doing it. It is not a case as you say of me being told things by 'red coats'? As for your comment about fox scavenged carcasses, as an experienced farmer id be suprised if you actually know many others that leave dead lambs scattered all over the countryside to be 'scavenged!' Also, animals that scavenge collect dead things to take away and eat, usually, the lambs we find in the fields have just been mutilated and left! Thats not scavenging!
Losa, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
I have hunted on foot with a pack of beagles since i could barely walk, I have witnessed a few kills of hares and occasionally of foxes, although yes i can see where people are coming from when they say it is brutal, you have to remember that the animal in question is dead as soon as the first hound gets to it as the first hound gets the throat. Therefore when you say the animal is being ripped apart ITS ALREADY DEAD. so wtf? you burn dead carcases. I live on a sheep farm and have witnessed a single dog fox (i know because i shot him) kill 3 lambs, when i saw this i had no way of killing him. I have also seen another fox kill 13 mucovy ducks, the worst of this is that although the fox had got in to get food, 10 of these ducks had just had their heads pulled off. Is this anymore"Brutal" than what a hunt does to a fox?? I think not. SO to all who oppose the ban, really. just go out and actually WAtch a hunt inprogress. Please, then give an unbiased opinion
JE, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
appart from the fact that the photo seems to depict show jumpers, i guess that the idiots that put it up hope to debate hunting. if this is the case then the answer to their question (in my oppinion at least) is neither.
Hunting is a valid form of pest control and the species hunted in this country (pre ban) need controling.
As for the birthright argument i think it is really time that the media stopped trying to push the class thing, as was seen by the marches against the ban on hunting, this is a sport enjoyed by a wide range of people from a wide range of backgrounds and while owning a horse may be beyond some peoples pocket (myself included) there is nothing to stop people following on foot, bike car etc, or taking part in Beagling or Mink hunting which is always done on foot anyway and i think everyone owns a pair of boots or trainers.
lets just hope the ban get overturned and we can get back to what we love.
tracy, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
birthright as was my fathers his father and thereon and now its my daughters birthright why are they showing a photo of a bunch of showjumpers (nothing against you guys) born to hunt f**k the ban
Emma Walters, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
bring back hunting.....its natural :) and it is immoral to take away our rights as humans to do what we want.
Adrian, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
............ and some showjumper wear back coats, so they had better look out as well.
I agree ............. who sents up these ridiculous poles.
Fight prejudice and Fight the Ban.
The Act is unworkable, and worse still unenforceable. Normal hunting activities should be restored within a middle ground framework - what should have happened in the first place! Enough is enough.
Michael Whitaker, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Best not wear my red jacket for fear of attacks by antis! They will be after me next!
Nick Skelton, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
I wonder who did this poll? Is it about hunting or showjumping?
Geoff Billington, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Neither do I John. I dont think it is my birthright either...just my job
John Whittaker, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
I do not think showjumpers are brutal?
Very odd!
Nitemare, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Talk about a cheap shot- guaranteed to get a reaction, and to raise the same old ill-informed prejudices.
Pity the ad-men chose a photograph of showjumpers as their fly in the water.
Bill the Beagler, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Those who have never hunted have not known what is one of the most ancient, truest and deepest of all field sports. Nothing compares to the sight or the music of a pack in full pursuit and nothing could be more natural than the quick kill of the quarry. Its detractors should look elsewhere for brutality and not amongst those who would maintain this fine and dearly-loved heritage.
Jenny, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Interesting point Kate - but at a time when governement definitely has even more important administration issues to deal with, a high ranking Tory has admitted that overturning a ban on fox hunting will be one of their priorities! Yippee - all change there then.
So Rosie - you find fox 'savaged' lamb carcasses in the morning - but you don't actually see the fox killing the lamb? - so you are assuming that it has because that's what the red coats tell you! You'd do better to grab yourself some real evidence you could present to the world. Can you imagine someone convicting an oppoortunist whole stole an already dead man's watch for murder? I feel you are probably finding 'fox scavenged carcasses'. Perhaps you could consider having your ewes lamb inside - i know we do and never lose any. As for fox proof fencing, I'm not sure what century you are living in or what equipment you are using, but believe me we have managed it and to date have not lost one hen despite having a healthy fox population round and about. In fact they do us a favour by controlling rabbit numbers that are our biggest pests, despite what fox hunters would spin you. Please all of you pros, do yourselves a favour and stop asuming everyone in the countryside agrees with fox hutning. Its outdated and inefficient and more to the point cruel. Just provides a fallguy for poor farming and sport for a few idiots on horseback.
Kate, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Hunting is not brutal, but a necessary and effecient form of pest control. Although hunting people do not help themselves by often being inconsiderate and rude on public roads, we are still people who love the British countryside and enjoy seeing hounds hunting, for which they were born.
What is most worrying is that the British Government banned hunting, when it had more important and significant things to consider.
Marcus, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Well said Sarah
Rosie, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
What annoys me is people putting ridiculous ideas forward such as "correct fencing" to keep a fox out, and "lazy farming practice". If these people had any experience of what is is to live and work on the land they would know that no type of fence is going to keep out a fox if it wants to get in. Similarly, I would suggest that they offer to go and help at a local farm for a while where they would see this point proved, and also see that farmers strive for excellent practice and yet are still inevitably subject to problems with vermin. When i say vermin, I mean anything from foxes to pigeons and rats. It is ignorance that is the problem here and like somebody pointed out earlier, people can offer statistics and "university surveys" all they want to, but what will speak loudest for me is going out in the morning after lambing time and regularly (especially since the ban) finding fox savaged lamb carcasses.If you dont live or work in the countryside and have experience of this sort of thing, i find it impossible that you can truly comprehend the issues surrounding this arguament. Likewise, I would not venture to offer up opinions on cultures and societies that I have no experience of, even if I thought I had a point, as without truly understanding the issues, I would most likely be offering a biased or ignorant point of view.
I would also point out that contributors such as 'what ban' and 'del boy' ought not comment unless they can offer a sensible and sound contribution in support of the hunt as they represent a small minority who give hunting a bad name, when in fact the majority of hunt supporters are genuine people who realise that it is an important part of countryside life that must be protected and preserved by offering truthful and helpful arguaments.
Sarah, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
@ Jo - please produce this "scientific proof" of which you speak when you have dug it up from your lab.
I now live in the city and every morning when I walk past the hundreds of rubbish bags reeking of fox piss spilling out all over the place because they have been ripped open by foxes during the night (funnily enough, they are shy creatures which may account for the lack of visual evidence of them in the act of slaughter - and I would imagine most farmers don't have the time or inclination to rig up a CCTV system and post the video on you tube) I am struck by the irony that those who are anti-hunting are generally urban dwellers.
I witnessed an anit-hunt member run over 3 hounds (two of them were so badly injured they had to be put down) and spraying some sort of pepper spray in numerous horses eyes. Animal lovers? Really?
hmmm, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
well spotted martin, they are in Pink coats yet no platted mane?
Martin, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Pity your image of supposed hunting folk is incorrect, you are depicting a group of showjumpers!!
As per usual people like to oppose something they know diddly squat about.
Rob, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
It’s a Birthright of this country to have the right to choose and be able to vote. So even if you are in opposition to hunting, you still have the right to choose that fact. Brutality is not necessarily bad, is not putting down a dog that has chronic heart disease brutal? It’s a humane way but it’s still brutal. So both refer to hunting but which refers to the release of the ban? Let’s just hope that this vote helps us all to cry Tally Ho to the Ban.... even if its badly structured
Helen, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
A pack of hounds or poisoning or a pot shot with a rifle? I know which one I'd choose. (that would be the first one btw) Most people are so removed from the realities of life and death in nature that they can't see anything other than little humans in cute fluffy animal bodies.
Born to hunt. Forced to march. Prepared to Fight!
Marcus, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Hunting does nothing to control fox populations, it does however deter them from going onto land that is hunted and therefore helps protect all the free range chickens. I am pro hunt, and for those of you who say the fox is torn apart I suggest you do some homework and check your facts. Hunting is more than just about the hunt, they take fallen stock from farmers free of charge if there is no hunt the farmer has to pay for this service and that means prices go up. Perhaps we should ban cars and stop all the roadkill?? Oh and well said Bev!!
Bev, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Once again rural life is under scrutiny by City/Town folk who really don't know or understand why we hunt. Hunting is not a class thing - the stereotype is, but in fact ordinary working class village people hunt too. My lads shoot pheasants and rabbits. We support our local hunt in which our neighbour - a builder - is a member. After reading last week that town people deliberately poison the food in their dustbins to kill off foxes, isn't this all stones and glasshouses?
Jason, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Hunting is a way of life. The sooner people come to terms with that fact the better. When one sees the cruelty inflicted on animals by the likes of PETA and the RSPCA (ostensibly fighting for animal rights but in fact putting down more animals than any huntsman) it makes one realise what blatant hypocrisy the whole hunting act really is.
libby Knowles, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
BAN THE BAN!!!!
Donna Scott, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
It is neither a birthright or a brutality - what a stupid, loaded question. Can we please stop attacking the people who hunt - most of whom aren't "toffs" anyway, and remember that hunting is about wildlife management. And please stop the tired old nonsense about bear baiting. Gambling and wildlife management couldn't be more radically different.
Nat, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
I think it is disgusting, killing for sport is sick!! I think that it is animal cruelty at a high level, everyone has their opinion and is free to express it however i do not think people are free to torture a poor animal to death so they can get an adrenaline rush off it and then move on to the next victim!
ph, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
hunting is a way os life
Rudie, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
@Henry I wonder how many KFCs you can eat before a horse would collapse under your weight?
Del Boi, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
Hunting is way way way awesome
BG, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
'Hooray' Henry- People like you are the reason that the hunting fraternity get such a bad press. Sort your attitude out, we don't need arseholes like you giving us a bad rep.
Dale, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
@Henry
Extra Extra read all about it "only anti fox hunters eat KFC"
Pillock
lucy, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
hunting is way mean
Sophie, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
Fox hunters show a complete lack of empathy; don't they have better things to do with their time (and money) than needlessly killing an animal?
Henry, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
lol lol lol people who dont like hunting are "just alot of foot stampers" who do not like the fact they are left out of this fantastic sport. i guess it is because they are too fat from KFC to get on a horse.
Del, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
found yourself some more fans here i see maggie
jon, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
I agree 100% with that comment
stella, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
maggie...your arguement stands on nothing but arm chair psychology, comparing hunters to at best crazed murders and worse nazis and your evidance is from youtube....your a total idiot and your making a twat of yourself
Maggie, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
Here here Jo. The pro argument stands on nothing but biased anecdotal evidence and falls at the first challenge.
Jo, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
Fox hunting has been scientifically proven to have no effect on fox numbers. No one is denying that they can cause problems for farmers, but as hunting with hounds has no effect it therefore has no benefit to farmers. The argument that it is better than shooting is weak at best- there is no evidence that a fox dies quickly in a hunt (other than anecdotal evidence by hunters). Even the vets evidence that showed the 'quick kill' submitted to the Burns enquiry was submitted by equine vets who by their own admission on their webiste frequently hunt and have done for years- funny how the unbiased evidence conducted by a university showed the opposite.
This is indeed about a section of society who believe that the laws that govern the rest of should not not apply to them, because 'only they understand the countryside' - they need to wake up and realise that animal cruelty laws should apply to everyone.
Lets strengthen the ban not repeal it and ensure that it is enforceable.
sonia, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
I do not agree with fox hunting, it is cruel, and so is rat traps and poison!! More should be done to provent foxes getting to live stock in the first place, anyone who wants info go to the natonal fox welfare site and they will tell you the correct fencing to put up, I agree totally with maggie
trev, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
keep on hunting sod the ban
charlie, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
Maggie, I have watched both badger and fox kill lambs, and once they have done it once they will carry on doing it. Some vixens will have their cubs to coincide with lambing time, and when you reach their earth's, there are the remains of lambs at every entrance. Rogue foxes need to be removed as they become a real problem. Pheasants getting blasted out of the sky keep many people in jobs and create habitat's which benefit many wild creatures. Without the pheasants there would be less jobs and less wildlife habitat's. Everything you have said is rubbish, please go with open eyes and view for yourself the destruction created by rogue foxes.
Giles Bradshaw, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
Hunting with dogs is less cruel and better wildlife management than other means of killing foxes/
tm, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
for everyone who says its cruel to hunt foxes: its no different from you putting down a mouse trap or putting down rat poison. its vermin control, something that needs to be done. and why shouldnt anyone enjoy something that has to be done?
Dale, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
I dont live in the city, I am not a lefty, I am not a student, I am not a liberal. Fox hunting is needless, barbaric and heinous. There are many many legitimate ways to keep populations down without tearing animals apart for fun. However whenever you put these ideas forward you get one stock crap answer. "Too expensive". Utter rubbish. Constant replacement of stock is just as expensive whereas if the populations were being controlled the stock wouldnt to be replaced.
TAW, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
anyone who thinks a fox, hare or other animals are poor defenseless "Disney" animals haven't a clue. Live a day with a farmer and see for yourself what damage animals do when left unchecked. The farmers are growing YOUR food, they should have the right to protect their land and crops, and we should have the right to assist them, work our dogs and maintain our way of life. Less Government involvement in our lives!
morgan, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
SLIIIIIIPPPP THE DAAAAWWWG!
oh and btw when i say that it restricts people, all i mean is that it makes them feel a little more sneaky about there job, not one lurcher owner has stopped hunting foxes, and the never will, our prisons are full to the brim, and you lot want to put more people in there? just for allowing a dog to run after a fox? please.
Eddie S, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
Claire - I just don't agree that Hunting is brutal or even cruel and even if I cannot persuade you on that argument I simply don't have an issue with killing a fox by hunting it or shooting it.
Why don't I just go drag hunting? I do, and it is very enjoyable but a bit like going to a golf driving range, it's fun but it just is not the same as playing a round on a beautiful links course; in honesty, I am not entirely sure why but the lack of predictability coupled with the excitement of the chance of a real chase must have something to do with it.
Why do I still do it even thought it's banned? First, the ban is ineffective and the manner in which hunting now takes place is generally accepted as being within the law which is why there have hardly been any successful prosecutions; therefore, I am not acting "above the law". Second, and more importantly, because I am not going to stand by and watch whilst our incompetent government panders to an ill-informed minority of the general public on a matter which has no effect whatsoever on them but a huge effect on the rural section of society. I believe in hunting, I believe in the countryside and I believe in supporting what I believe in.
Maggie - with all respect, I don't care where you're from or what you do or how much money you have. I agree that the "EU" and Tescos have not been very helpful towards farming in the UK (to put it mildly) and I expect that most pro hunters would agree with that as well. However, there is not a huge amount we can do to unwind our membership of the EU nor is there to reduce the power of Tescos but at least we continue to hunt in defiance of the "ban" as a way of showing our solidarity towards the countryside and the agricultural community at large.
Seriously, go hunting you'd love it!
morgan, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
maggie, you answered your own question, we live in a world where data and statistics instead of the reality of seeing with your own eyes leads the way, i personally do not want my life to be governed by your statistics and i think that everyone should get out more, see more and do more instead of relying on others for information.
morgan, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
it is nothing like dog fighting, if you think that then you have never seen, don't understand, or are just plain dumb, death is quick, and the idea that its like a dog fight is laughable since the point of a dog fight is to watch, and with most hunts only one person (if that) will actually see the kill. he is there doing his job, controlling the hounds, the rest of the hunters are there to ride, the ban has not affected thees people, but it has affected working class professional pest controllers, the reason it got banned is mainly due to a bit of class warfare, i have no patience with toffs, but when you interfere with someones livelihood and stop him/her from using his dog(s) to efficiently control foxes (legally) what you are doing is evil. hunting with lurchers is banned now despite the death bein quicker than most shotgun kills, definitely less painful and alot more fair. the fox does have a chance of escape, why do people insist on distancing themselves from nature? foxes are pests, they will always be hunted, not one fox was saved by the ban and i should think alot more died harsher deaths, i.e. snaring or gassing. when the ban came in alot of farmers who had been leaving the foxes alone for the hunt, went out and killed as many as they could, they also had to fork out money to pest controllers to do the job for them, this means that far from helping foxes the ban actually helped persecute them. congratulations animal lovers, all you did was help loud mouthed scum get their way.
the ban is unworkable, more people are getting interested in fox hunting, and support continues to grow, three hunts have opened since the ban came in and not one has closed. all people want is there rights returned to them.
Ali, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
Thanks to this stupid ban, on the private estate where I live, the fox population has exploded. My neighbours have had numerous chickens ripped to shreds, maimed and left to die by foxes, and the gamekeeper has so far shot 120 foxes instead of the usual seasonal number of around 40. The other week two chickens were savaged by a pair of hunting foxes in front of their eyes in broad daylight, and I regularly watch this pair rounding up the terrified sheep and lambs in the field next to my yard - they haven't succeeded in killing any of these yet as their antics have so far been disturbed by walkers on the adjacent footpath. I have horses, rent my cottage from the estate for a modest sum and am no toff. I come from generations of family that worked the land and I am sick and tired of townies dictating to us on how the countryside should be managed. I presume these are the same ignorant people that allow their children to feed my horses rubbish, giving them choke, and have even been known to go into my rented paddocks to "make a fuss of them!" I wonder if they'd appreciate me walking into their gardens to feed their dogs and dictate how they do their gardening.
geoff, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
maggie what you doing this weekend are you out with the ant hill mob robbing some ones grave and taking away the remains or you and your pals going to kill another person with a light aircraft or are we out for a bit of urban terrorism why dont you find your self some thing usefull to do like have a wash and take a flask of soup out with some sandwiches and try and help some poor old pensioner with a spot of gardening or like youd be thought much better of and at least youd be contributing some thing back to society and leave the countryside to people who understand it
tam, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
nothing wrong with hunting
Maggie, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
All this is about is a section of society that doesn't like being told what to do. A lot of footstampers the lot of you. I'm sure you''l all assume I'm a town dwelling, unwashed, unworking, non-farming person because I'm anti fox hunting. Go on bet you all do.
Maggie, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
There is no human right to be cruel. Nice to see all your pro- tired old excuses being trotted out for the umpteenth time. Where is your visual proof that foxes kill lambs? I've not seen any to date and in fact it has been proven that they do not kill lambs and what neglectful farmers tend to find are scavenged lamb carcasses which have died due to poor husbandary and poor modern farming practices. Given the lack of visual evidence of a fox actually killing a lamb would suggest to me that lamb loss is an insignificant factor to farmers otherwise I assume they'd put more effort into finding actual concrete proof that this happens. As for pheasants - you want me to feel hate towards a creature feeding itself upon birds who in a few months will be blasted out of the sky anyway? As for fox being 'nasty and indescriminate' WTF. We are talking about a wild animal here which is following its natural instincts. If it kills an entire coup of chickens, well 1) that's because it finds itself in an enclosed space with them which in the wild it wouldn't and 2) if it could get in in the first place then the coup was pretty shoddy to start with - again lazy farming practices.
If you all stopped believing the fairystories about evil Mr fox put about by the hunting fraternity and actually turned your energies to your real enemy in farming - i.e. the EU and Tesco who fill the shelves with cheap imported shit, you just might be able to save what little farming we have left. But no - be my guest if you decide instead to turn your frustration to killing something smaller that in fact really isn't your worst enemy, and can in fact be very beneficial then you all deserve what's coming to you.
oggy808, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
let country folk control country matters!!!!!! i live in west wales should i have a say where town folk park in any city or town, nothing to do with me let local folk decide
jigsaw, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
its a stupid question from a stupid person that has no grasp on how life works,its really a choice one makes in life wether you decide to pursue a field sport or not,it seems the ban has not worked and will never work.you can lay silly laws but if the majority decide to pursue their right to hunt,then NOTHING AND NO ONE WILL STOP THEM.Think with your brain and not with your heart,like your meant to.LONG LIVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE.
Bows, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
Who here has a life full of love? That'll give us all more of a clue as to where everyone stands on all these issues.
Peace x
mack, Monday, 20 April 2009
what ban?????? its the birthright of every human being to protect his crops, livestock and feed his family...
fish, Monday, 20 April 2009
i think the ban should be repealed but i do get a laugh from the toffs actually being poachers at the moment!
steve, Monday, 20 April 2009
lets get the tradition back on track, we are losing far too many thaks to the goverment
what ban, Monday, 20 April 2009
theres a ban its not stoping me ban all you like im going out now to kill a fox byyyy
your never stop come and find me you fucks
Mal, Monday, 20 April 2009
Whoever started this topic obviously isn't looking for a balanced answer. I mean, 'Birthright or Brutality', honest to god.
I personally feel that it's neither. The natural world is a whole lot more brutal than a fox hunt, this topic is about class war, pure and simple.
I'd bet most people who oppose fox hunting have never even seen a fox, let alone a fox hunt. Bear in mind that the ban on hunting foxes with dogs, has had absolutely no impact on the numbers of red fox, in fact quite the opposite. The number of people granted firearms certificates has increased. Foxes are now killed in higher numbers than ever before, and guns are indiscriminate. Whereas a fit fox would have a chance of escape from a hunt to pass on it's strong genes, the slower foxes would have been weeded out.
It's the slower, aged, unfit foxes that are a problem for farmers. A fit fox is able to survive in the wild with no need to come into contact with humans.
I don't expect a balanced debate with people that don't understand the countryside, after all, most city folk think of the countryside as somewhere you go to get away from it all, a playground if you will.
It's not, it's a living, breathing, working environment that exists as it is today, solely because it's been kept the way it is for hundreds of years by people that understand it, and that includes the hunts.
kevin, Monday, 20 April 2009
I will always hunt my lurcher and terrier. If i get caught i will continue to hunt if i go down i will hunt when i come out and if i die hunting my kids will hunt when I'm gone. The fact is whatever you anti hunt people say or do it wont change anything about my lifestyle and it never will, millions and millions of hunters just like me will hunt till our dieing day and so will our children. This is a battle you will never win ITS IMPOSERBLE , Just give it up because your looking sad and desperate., Most if not all you say is lies or total bullshit and the public are starting so see that as well.
cheese master general, Monday, 20 April 2009
kill kill kill, its the only way forward, its been going on years why stop it now, keep on hunting chaps and watch out for the stupid, grave digging antis
Mr T Ossers, Monday, 20 April 2009
Dear Oh! dear, birthright or brutality, what a bloody stupid question. A fox IS a brutal killer, a fox has absolutely no feeling for what it kills or maims, a fox will kill more than it needs to feed itself and it's young, a fox will maul and leave chickens dying in agony.
As fox hunter says, "the fox is a pest, we need to control pests" and I'm more than happy to oblige.
thomps, Monday, 20 April 2009
slipppp the dawwwgggg
geoff, Monday, 20 April 2009
ive been hunting all my life and i will continue to do so and no illegal law passed by a corrupt government will ever stop me doing so you antis who post this propaganda and lies about country sports followers should and will be seen for what you are urban terrorists and grave robbers why dont you petition the rspca in respect of the thousands of healthy cats and dogs they murder every year and the stinking conditions they keep them in and these are genuinely defenceless
fox bolter, Monday, 20 April 2009
dont argue with a humane tradition you no nothing about.stay in your dirty towns with kiddy fiddlers,murderers,foriegners etc and leave our countryside alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
fox hunter, Monday, 20 April 2009
the fox is a pest, we need to control pests. we provide a very good haditat for foxes, they thrive and then we end up with lots of unhealthy foxes. would you rather they die quickly or die a slow and painfull death!!!! wake up and smell the coffee!!!!!!!
don, Monday, 20 April 2009
whoooooop whoooooop whoooooooop a hunting we shall go. The ban will soon be lifted.
don, Monday, 20 April 2009
BAN THE BAN!!!!
charlie, Monday, 20 April 2009
I' am a terrierman, I control fox, and I control them as humanely as is possible. My work is the only method of fox control that can target a rogue fox and deal with it without causing suffering. For those that oppose this form of control I say go see the damage fox can cause to the farmers during lambing, go see the damage caused to the pheasants in the rearing pens, then tell me fox are cute and dont just kill for killing sake. Get out there in the countryside, open your eye's and stop looking through rose tinted glasses, stop believing all that is fed to you via anti blood sport writers. I respect my quarry, I only remove problem foxes which are taking game birds, as this is all the law allows. I feel for the sheep farmers, for these us terriermen are unable to carry out our job due to the law.
Edd Whinn, Monday, 20 April 2009
If i want to go and controll problem foxes i will go and controll problem foxes in my countryside,,No goverment tells country people how to mangage our countryside.
john, Monday, 20 April 2009
CLAIRE its called pest control
Maggie, Monday, 20 April 2009
People who want the ban overturned are just a load of foot stampers that don't like being told what to do. Well hello - we're all told what to do in some shape or form so get used to it. Fox hunting is unneccessary, ineffective, and down right cruel - please remember that a 'human right to be cruel' doesn't actually exist! Excuses fielded by pro foxhunters are so contradictory that they send their defence tumbling like a pack of cards in an earthquake. One example being - we only take out the old and the sick - but then we corner young and viable foxes in coverts in the autumn, and drive any escapees back into the hounds' jaws! See what I mean.
Claire, Monday, 20 April 2009
In response to the comments by Eddie S, I refuse to accept that chasing a defenceless animal through the countryside with a pack of blood thirsty hounds and horses isn't cruel. Especially when the ultimate end for this animal is being ripped to shreds by said hounds.
If you fancy a ride through the countryside, then just go riding. Why do you have to chase an animal in order for you to get enjoyment? Also, aren't there now alternatives that means you can still enjoy the thrill of the chase without an animal dying in the process, eg, drag hunting?
Finally, seeing as this has now been made illegal in the UK why do you think you are above the law by still going hunting?
Eddie S, Monday, 20 April 2009
I love hunting but it is expensive which is why I cannot afford to do it very much. The learning to ride, the equipment and then the cost of the day make it prohibitivly expensive. This is not to say that people with less money cannot afford to do it as I have met many people who devote the lives to hunting and find ways to keep costs down. Everyone is, or should be, welcome to and at liberty to hunt so I guess it is technically a birthright although the term gives rise to the class debate which is entirely unhelpful and misleading. A bit like polo, hunting will always be predominantly carried out by those who are richer. I can name many other sports that fall into this category; for example, motor racing and yacht racing. Anyone has the right to take part in all these but few can afford to but that is not to say that such activities are in some way wrong.
Hunting is not brutal or, if it is, I am not sure whether that means it is therefore "wrong". Pursuing a wild animal and killing it is not, in my opinion, so cruel or os brutal so as to make it socially or morally unacceptable. But some people would argue that it is cruel to swat a fly. I respect the anti-cruelty/brutality opinion of those members of society whose lives do not involve the killing of animals. There are few of these people. If you argue that hunting is brutal but still eat battery chickens and cheap Tesco chicken and enjoy a Big Mac well quite frankly your opinion is irrelevant.
Bottom line, if you can ride and can afford it, give a hunting a go. If you think you'll enjoy the feeling of adrenaline rushing through your veins as you hurtle (almost out of control) at giant hedges and ditches and the feeling of galloping at full pace across Britain's beautiful countryside with mud being flung in your face, you'll enjoy hunting. If you can't ride and / or can't afford a day's hunting you're welcome to watch and support a day but if you ask me that's pretty boring.
Tim F, Monday, 20 April 2009
Who is paying for these adverts? I saw this on the Underground this morning and once again the debate around hunting has been reduced to an argument about class. I am sick of this type of thing, I supporting hunting and I’m not a member of the Royal family! People shouldn’t try to make me feel guilty about believing in an activity which is part of British heritage and once which benefits entire communities. I wish people like you would give a balanced opinion rather than roll out the same old arguments.
Tom, Monday, 20 April 2009
Birthright.
What, Monday, 20 April 2009
is this some twisted advertising campaign. Excuse me who is paying for this as it has obviously had a fair amount of money pumped into it. I ended up here from a london underground ad. Is this going to end up being a new look Mcdonalds Campaign or something equally grotesque
MJ, Sunday, 19 April 2009
@ BOB: Theories never become facts. They explain facts.
BOB, Friday, 17 April 2009
Fred Barboo i think u belive in evolution, by the way its only a theory which will never become fact.
Fred Barboo, Friday, 17 April 2009
They're only animals...as are we...animals hunt other animals...
When we cease kidding ourselves that we are some higher being we will live in a healthier society.
It was only Blair getting revenge for Thatcher's crushing of the miners.
Tracey, Thursday, 16 April 2009
This is not the right question. Both options suggest something other than the question of whether hunting should be allowed or not. People who believe that they should have the freedom to go hunting if they so wish would not consider it their 'birthright' - a word which implies a certain social class.
Sara, Wednesday, 15 April 2009
Legitate means of animal control - people who state anything else probably all live in cities and very little clue!
Joel, Wednesday, 15 April 2009
Its the same as dog fighting, bear bating, or cock fights
Either its justified or its not. In my book not - but I havent seen one hunt advocate suggesting a return to bear bating?
76% Brutality
Comments
Donald Spear, Monday, 15 August 2011
Recently my family and I have been enjoying some of the local fox population coming into our yard in the country eating fallen fruit etc. from our yard. We felt we were blessed to observe such elusive and wild animals us close and personal. We looked forward to this occurance every evening. And then came the redneck fox hunters. I observed one of our precious red fox friends being taken out of the woods torn to shreds with nothing remaining but a little fur, hide, and head remaining. I don't concider turning thirty, two foot tall dogs loose on a fifteen inch tall fox sport. The fox doesn't have a chance as I read one of your posters say they did. There is no way a fox can get away from all those dogs which can run twice as fast as them. Please don't think this post is from someone that is against hunting. I have been hunting all my life, but the difference is, I believe in a swift and humane kill, not barbaric brutality that is happening with this rediculous sport called fox hunting. The dogs catch the fox alive and literally tear him to shreds alive. I am having a hard time dealing with this burtality and just wish I could find a way to put a stop to it. Lets try to put this whole thing into perspective. How about you fox hunters running through the woods and let me turn loose a pack of human hunting dogs loose on you and lets see how you feel when they catch up with you and tear you to shreds alive. Of course you should love it because you have been killed instantly and it didn't hurt. Take that thought to bed with you. Another food for thought, I'll bet if your wives and kids knew how you were killing these foxes on a hunt they would have a different view of what a big man they thought you were.
EJ, Wednesday, 10 November 2010
I have hunted with my local hunt since the age of 8, I love animals and I love fox hunting, although if I ever witness a kill up close it doesn't make me feel good. Although I think it is fair. I can say from personal experience that the foxes are far more sly and fast than the hounds and can very often escape easily. CM has the right idea. We don't tell anyone what they may or may not do. Some of the comments on this site are quite amusing, it is very obvious that almost every single opposer to fox hunting who has posted on this has no idea about hunting, and did not try to find anything out before condemning it. Also I think you would find that the reason there are so little pro hunting comments here is that the pro hunting people tend to be a little less obsessive over the subject and mind their own on the whole.
Fred D, Saturday, 12 June 2010
Actually, with the hunting ban in place, the anti's are much happier than they were a few years ago when hunting was leagal, yet current hunt rates have never been higher, and there have been almost no prosecutionsin the last year it's a sort of win win situation. If the law was repealed, then anti's would be very unhappy, and I wouldn't be surprised if they rioted...
CM from Canada, Friday, 30 April 2010
and as a corollary: I accept that others have the right to disagree with foxhunting, no one is asking them to participate. But keep your opinions to yourselves. I don't agree with people's right to be fat and wear crocs either or dress their pets up in pink, but I don't go around making them change.
CM from Canada, Friday, 30 April 2010
the issue is not whether the fox population needs to be controlled. Even if foxhunting is the most humane way of controlling it. The issue is whether people have the choice to decide on how they choose to spend their time. Foxhunting is no more cruel to animals than eating meat, using animals for research, or wearing leather shoes. And the issue is that what is considered "normal" or ethical to one person might not be the same for another. But that doesn't mean its wrong or should be banned. Most people agree murdering another human is unethical, stealing from them etc. These are acts that infringe on human rights. But why infringe on the right of someone to do as they choose if they are not hurting someone else? Foxhunting does not "hurt" the fox, the fox is killed instantly, and is certainly not afraid of dieing (since it doesn't know what dieing is). Please leave these poor people alone to do what is considered acceptable (and perfectly legal) to a large number of people in the world (North America for example!). Why are other forms of hunting considered "legal" but foxhunting is not? Animals are more likely to suffer if they are shot than killed instantly by a dog. What could be more natural for a wild animal? Predator and Prey. Get over yourselves with your talk of "barbaric acts' and go and enjoy your hamburger in your leather shoes.
Dave Stockport, Thursday, 4 March 2010
As we were told before foxhunting was banned it was not a blood sport it was essentiol. If we did not have folk in red coats and blaring horns forcing horses over dangerous jumps we would be over-run by foxes. So where are all the foxes? Only two answers are clear. The first being the obvious that the bloodthirsty lied and just wanted to make their "sport" look acceptable. The second must be that the foxes have taken up birth control as they no longer see their family ripped apart to entertain the "upper classes", well its possible, they always out-foxed the hunters. As for the job losses. How many jobs have gone? A damm sight less than in industry. But then Industry is not a sport old chap. In sort the proof is that the rich must now find other things to kill in order to feed their blood-lust. Who knows they might even one day hunt each other. Now thats a "sport" That would be worth watching.
none, Friday, 27 November 2009
Foxes are around in London and cities more now. I have seen them and heard them outside. One even just walked straight past me. I would like to know why people who fear things grately think that it is fine to kill it, destroy it or just ignore it's existence.
Donkey, Thursday, 29 October 2009
Who is it that asks all these questions?
Maggie, Monday, 17 August 2009
Good to hear that Caroline! It's nice to know of others who like horses but despise cruelty.
Caroline Campbell, Sunday, 16 August 2009
I live and work in the countryside and i am a "country person" (NOT a "Townie") through and through, I have had some losses due to fox predation (my fault as i didn't secure the door properly)! Very easily prevented. I own and ride horses , compete regularly in horse events all over the country but i think any hunting with hounds is one of the most disturbing acts of animal abuse in the world today and the ban MUST be re enforced not repealed. I'm also extremely ashamed to be linked to this disgusting spectacle through my love of horses. Get a life fellow countrymen! and remember that most country dwellers are NOT behind you!!!
Chris, Thursday, 6 August 2009
How about if I took one of your horses and let a pack of dogs rip it to shreds.....wouldn't be a sport then would it??... Thought not!
jessica fox, Thursday, 9 July 2009
Bearing in mind that the overwhelming majority of comments on this site support the view that fox hunting is a hideous and unjustifiable practice, I find the percentages (currently 52% birthright, 48% brutality) hard to believe. I think it is likely that this site is purely a vehicle of the pro-hunting lobby and the intention is to imply that they have popular support, when every poll or survey has shown quite the opposite.
dave white, Tuesday, 7 July 2009
people who hunt do it because they enjoy killing, otherwise they would agree to drag hunt. I have nothing but contempt for these morons
Sheila, Wednesday, 1 July 2009
"Nature does not belong to the human race, but to God, its creator. God appointed us stewards of nature, so that we might respect it and thus discover the true basis of our own existence." His Holiness Pope John Paul II.
"The THINKING man must oppose all cruel customs no matter how deeply rooted in tradition and surrounded by a halo. When we have a choice, we must avoid bringing torment and injury into the life of another, even the lowliest creature; to do so is to renounce our manhood and shoulder a guilt which nothing justifies." - Albert Schweitzer
Maggie, Saturday, 27 June 2009
Maria - that's such a sad story. Poor little mite - the hunting season is over so there is no way they should be doing that! Hope they were prosecuted. Once again the fact they having to 'train' pups to kill foxes is blatant proof that fox hunting is one of the most unnatural events going! The fox is not a natural prey for a dog.
Maria, Thursday, 25 June 2009
For crying out loud stop the white wash. I volunteer at a wildlife sanctuary and currently have in my care a cub under 4 months old who is minus an eye after an attempt by terriermen to dig him from his earth to 'train' this years crop of pups. Sadly his brother and sister were not so fortunate and suffered grisly ends. All for the pleasure of the Cheshire hunt. The ban must be upheld. I only wish there was a feature for uploading images on this message board to show why it must never be overturned.
Sheri Bee, Thursday, 18 June 2009
SPORT????? its not a sport!!! How about i chase you toffs till your heart is beating so fast its about to explode then rip you to shreads!! Yeah sounds great!
I can see no sportsmanship in this! Just sickening cruelty... you should be ashamed of yourselves!!!
Tom Briars, Wednesday, 10 June 2009
Dont you just love these tired old chestnuts that hunt supporters come up with : eg 'Townies' simply dont understand the countryside, or have you ever seen what a fox does to a chicken? It is all so patronising and dishonest. I would have far more respect for these scumbags if they spoke the truth and said " We hunt animals because we enjoy it, and part of that enjoyment comes from the kill"
Maggie, Tuesday, 9 June 2009
Edward can you provide some unrefutable evidence to back up your claim that most objectors are urban dwellers? I doubt it, I'm sure being a hunt supporter you'll rely on anecdotes and yarns handed down from the men in red. I'm a country dweller and object to fox hunting because of the despicable cruelty involved. If you look a little closer you will in fact find a good percentage of the hunt actually live and work in the city and pop down to play at being countryside dwellers of a weekend to get their sadistic jollies! At least that's the case where I live.
Edward, Monday, 8 June 2009
I believe in our Freedoms and Liberties and I think it's wrong for a minority of people who have little to do with the countryside, to prevent another minority of people exercising a tradition which they have always had a right to. The objectors are overwhelmingly urban dwellers.
goldfish, Monday, 1 June 2009
i understand the need for vermin control. But why not have a trained marksman to shoot foxes if they are that much of a problem. I don't subscribe to this idea that the hounds can do the job in a much quicker fashion. i don't disaprove of hunting. i just find the pomp and pagentry a bit over the top to hunt such a small beastie
Maggie, Monday, 1 June 2009
John - please produce visual proof that foxes take piglets and lambs. So far I've found none and I've done a hell of a lot of looking. The only 'proof' (I use that term very loosely in terms of fox hunting) is anecdotal yarns and a few scavenged corpses which likely died anyway due to birth defects, and / or poor farm husbandry. Let's face it if a fox is able to get into a coup of chickens then the husbandry isn't particularly good is it. And don't lecture me - my grandparents lost their entire poultry to a fox one winter - did we hate it? No because it did a natural thing (no fox hunting is not natural- in fact the turning on the head of nature), and our coup was sh*t. Therefore our fault. It also did not go on a killing spree because the coup wasn't closed in over head and the rest of the flock could escape into fox proof nesting boxes - (yes gasps all round IT IS POSSIBLE - I know amazing isn't it!!!!!)it simply came back each night and took one - we watched it at work. So therefore the fox isn't the evil, mas*acrist you'd have us believe.
Maggie, Monday, 1 June 2009
Mark - I couldn't agree more!! I've been saying the same thing on various forums and been lambasted but you are right. The same sentiment sthat underpin foxhunting - I.e something is vermin, it is deterimental, I am better than it and therefore have the right and duty to kill it are exactly the sentiments that underpinned every attrocity you have mentioned and the list goes on! If people can't see that they are fools undoubtedly.
Nan Beckett, Monday, 1 June 2009
Hunting a birthright? How utterly ridiculous! It is a vile activity and I can fully make a connection with what Mark and Harry have said also. Is it not common practise for a new member of the hunt to have a bloodied heart rubbed across their face after witnessing their first kill? For other members to take home brushes and heads to be mounted on their walls as trophies? Google Ilsa Koch - she was fond of collecting fleshy souvenirs also. As did Idi Amin. Are you familiar with the 'bagging' practise regularly employed by terrier men? Capturing a fox , before ham-stringing or breaking it's jaw before bundling the unfortunate creature into a sack and releasing it during the hunt if picking are slim. Google the Cheka - they enjoyed torturing those who wouldn't play ball. Hunters routinely intimidate, persecute, verbally and physically abuse those who oppose and stand up against their activites.
John, Sunday, 31 May 2009
Harry how on earth can you compare eradication of vermin in the same light as persecution and systematic termination of vast sections of human life and compare rural communities in the same light as dictators that destroyed so many?
Harry, Sunday, 31 May 2009
Peverse tyrants enjoying persecuting and torturing others - Mark you've hit the nail on the head there mate!
John, Sunday, 31 May 2009
To Lisa
Why do you feel that you need to use words to make you seem more intelligent than others, more normal people would use the words "Rabbit" or Hare". I would ask you to provide links to these studies that have time and again etc. All that I can find is proof that foxes do indeed cause mortalities from Piglets through to Chickens and onwards. For the record I don't live in Cornwall, not all counties have the same issues; you don't have enough water we have to many foxes.
Lisa Shelby, Sunday, 31 May 2009
To John,
If it wasn't for foxes farmers would have an even bigger problem with rabbits and hares. Studies have proven time and time again that lagomorphs account for over 90% of their diet in the country. For the record I live in Cornwall....
John, Saturday, 30 May 2009
Goodness me, I do wonder how many of you very sparkly people live anywhere near the countryside. Ever seen a fox kill everything in sight? Probably not. Nature needs to be controlled to some extent. Rabbits regularly clear fields of crop, not a problem you say, lets import from somewhere else, how environmentally friendly. Just because you lovely people say it is wrong doesn't make it so. It is so easy to join the club and call everyone in the countryside or members of the CLA fools, but it is us that feed you, please do not forget.
Kay, Friday, 29 May 2009
All animals have a place in nature and it is only the interference of man that ruins the ecology of the planet. As stated previously I believe, foxes have their niche in keeping down the numbers of rats, mice, rabbits. Foxes would not breed to the point of saturating the country, they naturally breed more when prey is plentiful and less when prey is scarce, as do wolves. We need predators to keep a balance in nature, but humans are not natural predators of foxes.... We do not eat them. Killing for pleasure is sick and humans are the only animal that does it.
Mark, Friday, 29 May 2009
To those who believe foxes are pests:
Lenin thought the clergy were pests.
Stalin thought the Intelligentsia were pests.
Hitler thought the Jews were pests.
Saddam Hussein thought the Kurds were pests.
Time to consider indeed!
Jason Kirby, Thursday, 28 May 2009
Since when has anyone had the birthright to indulge in torture, murder.... all in the name of sport. Yes one fox, hundreds of dogs and spineless humans on hourses... fair anyone?
DAVE MITCHELL, Wednesday, 27 May 2009
The Countryside Alliance are nothing more than a bunch of mindless thugs. What greater perversion could there be than getting your jollies from watching a creature tormented, terrified and mutilated?
Maggie, Wednesday, 27 May 2009
Yep nature is quite apt at keeping numbers under control. The whole 'vermin' concept is something bandied about by the mounted men in red and believed by the farmers who support them - a way for the hunt to ensure that they can continue to get their jollies by creating a fear of the fox among the people with the power to tell them to get stuffed! As I've said before they'd be doing British farmer far more good if they got their bots off their horses and lobbied Tescos to sell more British stuff and the Eu to create better rules for our farmers - but no instead they think of their own enjoyment and put that first. The fox is so low down the list of threats to the farming industry it's not true! In fact there isn't even concrete evidence that foxes take live lambs!
Rob, Tuesday, 26 May 2009
They say they do it for pest control and then introduce more foxes by breeding to hunt, also if the dominant vixen is killed then all the subordinates have free reign to mate which produces more foxes, a wildlife officer told me that one and i trust his views cos hes spent 25 years working with foxes
Historian, Monday, 25 May 2009
The Red Fox was never a very populous animal in the british isles until 200-300 years ago when may were trapped and introduced in larger numbers from scandanavia so that land owners could hunt them easier.
Maggie, Monday, 25 May 2009
To Rabbitter - your argument is ridiculous - so it's in a dog's nature to kill a fox -but we still have to train them because we don't want them acting like wild dogs? WTF - complete contradiction. But coming from a fox hunter why doesn't that surprise me - your whole ethos is a complete contradiction of nature itself!
Pete, Sunday, 24 May 2009
Brutality. I don't know what it is about humans that make us think we have more of a right to the world than any other species. The reality is that if any one species is a pest it is us. It is us that pollute the planet, it is us that drop food everywhere and then complain there are too many rats and mice. It is us that allow half the world to starve while the rest are throwing food away.
I have seen more than enough evidence to be sure that we are far from the only species that shows emotion, love, aptitude and imagination.
Fox hunting is unnecessary and this has been proven by it being banned. Now, they simply use scent covered rags - the countryside hasn't fallen to ruin as certain biased individuals with an agenda suggested it would - nor has it become over run with foxes. Humans have only been around for a fraction of the time the planet and it's natural environment has been in existence. It did fine before us, and it will do fine if we ever become extinct.
We need to understand that we have no more right to be here than any other species in existence.
Ryan, Sunday, 24 May 2009
I think "Brutality" is an accurate description of foxhunting. I was born and live in the country, but the Countryside Alliance do not represent my views whatsoever.
Lisa Shelby, Saturday, 23 May 2009
Rabbiter, perhaps with the £100 to your name you should invest in some books and educate yourself. Foxes belong to the Canidae family, together with wolves, coyotes, etc.
As an aside, I find it telling how very few members of the hunting set are brave enough to post under their actual name...
Cormac Spencer, Friday, 22 May 2009
Rabbiter. Do shut up. Pest is a subjective term, secondly those dogs do not naturally want to attack foxes, there is no precedent to suggest that in canine history even pre domestic canines. The act itself is barbaric and disgusting. The people who gain a kick pathetic
Toby, Thursday, 21 May 2009
I am Devonshire born and bred. My family runs a working farm. I am opposed to foxhunting, together with many fellow country folk.
Vic, Wednesday, 20 May 2009
Stop pretending it's an elaborate form of pest control, call a spade a spade, and get comfortable with the idea that it's dressing up and hunting animals for fun. Do whatever you fancy, but cease and desist in this ridiculously patronising notion that you're doing the countryside a favour. Otherwise, it's your own tradition to do with as you will.
rabbiter, Wednesday, 20 May 2009
maggie.
you are wrong, most dogs show a venomous attitude towards foxes, as they would in nature, they do not need training, but a young pup can be a fragile thing, and if you want a dog that will take fox regularly you have to set him/her up for victory. i know more about the training of lurchers than i do the training of hounds. now to most of you that do not own a working dog, you will have to look at it from our point of view, we rely on our dogs to keep our permission to hunt on other peoples land, also some of us make a living from it, therefor a dog is important, and if it doesn't do the job then it is simply one more drain on our resources, if you get a dog from a pup you will do everything to make sure that it makes the grade. taking foxes needs a dog to be a brave one as the fox can bite back. and a young dog can expect to be bitten once or twice, but you do not want a dog that can simply take bites and then battle away with the fox, you want a dog that has no fear at all, ploughs in and kills the fox before it has stopped moving. this is what makes it humane, the dog has to really want to do it, and if you had ever seen a green lurcher that has never seen a fox, pulling hard on the slip and quivering with anticipation then you would rethink that ridiculous comment about it not being in there nature.
we do not want our dogs to act like wild animals. wild animals avoid confrontation and injury as they have no way of getting patched up, we can treat a dog that has been bitten, and depending on the breed they will handle the pain in different ways, a terrier cross for instance will barely know it has been bitten, whereas a deerhound cross might whine about it for a couple of seconds, but it rarely stops them doing the job since a seasoned dog is so keen to tackle a fox that you cannot possibly call him off, no matter how good your training... nature takes over.
please do not try and sound as though you know anything about dogs other than what you have read in articles by anti's and pet owner guides. also a fox is vulpine, not canine. of course in nature, were there no humans there would not be a pack hunting another carnivore. but humans are here, we have destroyed the balance of nature and it is up to some of us, the responsible ones to look past the squeamish views of townies and face the responsibility to maintain the countryside as best we can, we have been doing it for centuries, maybe you should leave it to us.
rabbiter, Wednesday, 20 May 2009
Stupid question, birthright and brutality are both the wrong words, I live in a terraced house and have under a hundred pounds to my name, I do not consider it a birthright to hunt foxes, but I consider it the right of people who know the land and work the land, to control pests in whatever way they please, personally i don't care about the traditional hunt, simply because I generally have no patience with toffs, not that they all are, but that is the stereotype. Instead I support it because it is the focal point of the ban which affects many more people than traditional fox hunters. the pest controllers who have worked dogs all there lives, and KNOW it to be a humane and effective way of dealing with foxes, also gamekeepers and farmers that own livestock guardian dogs, this law has criminalised good honest hard working people.
It is a shame that British legislation has taken such a fall, it was long considered the best in the world, and now we are banning people from allowing dogs to be dogs. Yes, we all enjoy hunting and many will not understand that, you cannot understand it if you have never been hunting. all types of hunting are addictive and in my opinion it is simply because it is in our nature. This ban is as much of a joke as breed specific legislation. which did nothing to stop dog fighters, but a hell of a lot to a breed of dog, which for the most part was innocent. Thankfully fox hunters have easily adapted to drag hunting and hunting has got more support than ever. most people that i have talked to are pretty neutral, the odd hardcore anti that I come across generally doesn't even know what a lurcher is, and these are the people that our government listened to. These are the people that would have us all eating nothing but fruit, and never administering pest control of any kind. face up to the facts people, if you eat...anything, something has died to get it on your plate, stop making it harder for the people that work the land FOR YOU.
Basil Bushey, Wednesday, 20 May 2009
As for the argument of 40 hounds to 1 fox yes that’s true. Please consider this, If I send 40 people from Enfield (who were only allowed to use their sense of smell) to chase 1 person in Croydon who had lived there for a long enough time they would easily be able to get away as they have local knowledge, know all the shortcuts and know where to hide! Hounds used to hunt foxes use only their sense of smell to catch their quarry!
Greg St Albans, Wednesday, 20 May 2009
People who have spend their lives in the town or cities unfortunately do not understand the way the people out in the sticks. Hunting keeps the fox numbers down without shooting or putting down poison, keeps people in jobs and heck if we carry on eroding our history & tradition we will end up in all sorts of bother.
David MRCVS, Wednesday, 20 May 2009
Samantha Wragg, as a surgeon specialising in wild care I can categorically state that post mortems rarely show damage to the cervical vertebrae. As with all pack animals, hounds bring down their prey by a series of bites and tears and target the abdominal region.
Han, Tuesday, 19 May 2009
Hi can you all take a moment to think what is happening to these dogs now. Most of them are getting put down for the sake of one rabbit or hare which most farmers will poison anyway - an extremly painful death.
Most of the time no animals are killed its just a sport and if the animal is kiiled then its fed to the dogs!
Jon Savage, Tuesday, 19 May 2009
The likes of the Countryside Alliance choose to refer to hunting as 'Field Sport' because they think this makes their disgusting pastime sound like a pleasant harmless pursuit. The truth is that you cannot take the killing out of hunting. Hunting is simply KILLING FOR FUN! Full Stop!
roger kent, Tuesday, 19 May 2009
Nothing but sadistic blood-lust
Sarah, Tuesday, 19 May 2009
Just to comment on the response to 'what foxes do to Livestock' - I would liek to point out that this is in fact nature and is what foxes do! Yes they are a pest but if there are adequate measures & barriers put in place then these issues are avoidable. Growing up on a farm, I understand the mess they create but also respect that is their nature.
To every pro-hunter out there, why cant you embrace drag hunting? Exactly the same as hunting but a fox does not get killed as the dogs follow a scent which is controlled by a person. Everyone still has their fun, horses & dogs get their exercise, & the riders can be as pretentious (or not) as they want to be, discussing family crests/land etc.
The main point im tryng to make is that hunts can still operate in relatively the same way, without the unecessary cruelty & foxes are left to mother natures devices.
Samantha Wragg, Tuesday, 19 May 2009
You cannot judge what you have not judged. It is not brutality when you know what foxes do to livestock. Is trapping or shooting really an alternative "humane" way to kill foxes? What alot of people do not realise is that the death of a fox by a hound is instant; the dogs break its neck in seconds, compared to being caught in a trap or being shot which causes a long and painful bleeding to death (would you wish that upon anyone let alone an animal). It is not necessarily a birthright as anyone can hunt, you do not have to be a snob, or wealthy to enjoy this sport just understand it. Which is the one thing that activists conviniently do not explain. Farmers livelihoods are often distroyed by the over breeding of foxes, which at the end of the day are vermin.
robin pappas, Monday, 18 May 2009
not birthright, just cruel and mindless 'tradition,' a sick definition of sport - time to evolve out of pursuits which involve the harming of another for fun - this kind of 'entertainment' has always been a distraction from the real business of making one's life count in a meaningful way.
Zizi, Sunday, 17 May 2009
Birthright???? Are you folks kidding? If people had the "birthright" to do everything they consider to be their right, by "tradition" then we would still have sanctioned slavery, children working in coalmines and gladiators fighting for their lives against lions! Women would never be entitled to vote, drive or own property, as is unfortunately, still the case in many unevolved, barbaric societies. Are these "entitlements" or "birthrights" that any sane, civilized or educated person could justify??? The fox hunt is another one of these anachronisms, that has no place in modern society. It is time to toss this one into the dustbin of history, along with public hangings and freaks in traveling circuses.
Nick C, Sunday, 17 May 2009
How can tearing appart a living being not be considered brutality.
Seanio, Sunday, 17 May 2009
I went along to watch this spectacle with a friend once-it wasnt really my thing but I thought I would take a look-nothing happened -some (not all) of the people were downright snobs-and as in the stereotype, they were lawyers, police chiefs, judges., (Masons) and a few 'foxy' women, who mainly sit on their horse talking Vogue and drinking from hip flasks. The dogs were up for it and there were some comedy moments with them. No fox found. Cubbing is a filthy business though whether that is a seperate issue Im not sure.
its not really a true tradition but it is nearly 300 years old-that doesnt make it a tradition. Tradition is for example fighting in English High Streets and second rate government- these have been around in this country much longer than fox hunting.
I think that to ban it is a bandwagon policy,a side issue, it is neither relevant or important or shouldnt be, and distracts nicely as an issue when a government is performing badly.
Saffron Innes Shaw, Sunday, 17 May 2009
Brutality. According to research data, pre ban, an average of 15,000 foxes were killed annually by the hunt. How can one fox being pitched against a pack of 40 hounds in any way be considered sporting? If a gang of 40 people attacked a lone individual it would make headline news and the whole country would be up in arms about it.
Ronnie Lee, Saturday, 16 May 2009
In response to Tony's comment 'Is the "justifiable cruelty" poll about foxes ripping limbs from our chickens on a regular basis?' - well, isn't that what human beings do on a regular basis? Human beings have the choice to be vegetarian and, therefore, should be. Foxes don't have that choice. So if you eat chicken, don't be so hypocritical as to criticise foxes for doing so.
Simon, Saturday, 16 May 2009
I consider it barbarian, however, if they are by birth entitled to this kind of entertainment, why not turn it into some paintball show?
Pleasure of the hunt, without the brutality.
Adrian Appley, Friday, 15 May 2009
No-one has the right to torture animals because of tradition or so-called birthright. Those who get pleasure out of seeing our fellow beings tortured are sick perverts and nothing less. It is high time people saw blood sports for the vile persuits they are and totally rejected them just as decent people do.
Jill, Friday, 15 May 2009
Tony are you talking about the very same chickens which are strung up alive by their ankles on a moving conveyer belt before being beheaded for your profit?
Tony, Friday, 15 May 2009
Is the "justifiable cruelty" poll about foxes ripping limbs from our chickens on a regular basis?
Maggie, Thursday, 14 May 2009
Tom that article doesn't actually surprise me. The fact that the pups have to be taught to kill a fox by a human being stands testiment to the fact that fox hunting with hounds has absolutely no place in nature, and is in fact an abomination in that carnivores of the same family are set against each other in a mockery of a natural process which would undoubtedly involve the pursuit of a large herbivorous creature. Any death among predators would be rare in comparison, as it would be due to competition rather than a 'hunt' and would undoubtedly take place swiftly at the site of a kill, and almost certainly would not involved prolonged chases as the pack would be too busy expending energy needed to bring down the large herbivores needed to feed the pack.
Tom, Wednesday, 13 May 2009
Typical party spiel on natural selection! Hunting is carefully and coldly premeditated as this extract from a letter by the late Robert Churchwood, a Master Of The Hounds, attests:
"We made for the small wood where the Master had been informed there was a litter of cubs. First of all he ordered the 30 or so people out that morning to surround the wood. Then he sent hounds and hunt staff into the thickets inside the circle of waiting horsemen and women.
At first nothing happened. Then the hounds baying told us that the litter had been found. I waited to see what happened.
As the cubs were frightened away from their mother they ran desperately out of the wood, only to be frightened back into the very jaws of the hounds.
It was nothing more than a circle of death. People on horseback holloaed at the top of their voices, flapped their reins and banged the sides of their leather saddles with their hunting crops.
They set up such an unholy clamour that the second the frightened cub ran out of his home and, as he thought he was out of danger, he was frightened back.
Hounds ate every cub.
At one stage I was disgusted to see the pups whipped away from the older hounds and a fox cub chased into their inexpert mouths by the Masters command of, 'Let the pups have that one.'
It was a terrible scene. The pups, lacking the experience of the older hounds, were not quite sure how to deal with the cub.
They bit the cub and were bitten back. They treated it as both something to kill and something to play with. There was a sordid scuffle in which fur, flesh and blood flew in all directions.
After what seemed like an hour there was nothing left of the cub. The pups looked up proudly, wagging their sterns and looked for praise from their master.
This was the pups education.
Let me say this blunty from my 40 years experience of the sport: The main reason for cubbing is to educate the young hounds by letting them eat live cubs"
andrew, Tuesday, 12 May 2009
Whether you hunt or not the facts are the same. In general hounds will only be able to catch - and therefore kill- the sick, lame and lazy. Any smart, healthy fox would be very unlucky to get caught. Sadly for the fox our local hunt is no longer allowed to chase foxes so we now shoot them, this is by far the most efficient method although it shows no natural selection and the fox is not always dispatched as cleanly as we would like. So irrelevant of your opinion of hunting (and I don't) the only thing to suffer from a hunting ban is the fox population.
Twigley, Monday, 11 May 2009
I'm not sure that mindless violence excercised against a small canine, or rodent or lagomorph by a pack of carnivorous trained hunter-killers is a birthright.
Indeed. Whether you like doing it or not - you'd be hard pressed to say that it wasn't brutal.
Why don't you pro fox hunting people admit it - you do it because you like it. You like the chase with all the hounds. You like the speed. The horses' gallop. The foxes fear. The short squeak, maybe a snarl before it is torn flesh from bone in a hopelessly one sided contest. Let's be honest about what you like to do. And just admit it. You like to do it.
Saul, Monday, 11 May 2009
Fox hunters fall into the same category as rapists, pedophiles and child killers. There's nothing to debate here, it's just sickos getting their twisted kicks regardless of who or what suffers. They're a stain on humanity. Burn them all. Then burn them again just to be sure.
Gail, Friday, 8 May 2009
I'm sure if roles were reverse the people and their "birthright" would not want someone hunting them down, chasing causing them incredible stress and fear and then ultimately murdering them... always put yourself in others shoes, regardless of species.
Maggie, Friday, 8 May 2009
Ginnie and Allie - I agree it is absolutely disgusting. Really is not part of an evolved society. Although most hunters will deny any involvement with terrier men and in the next breath claim that they still dig out if the farmer asks them to do so - in other words the majority of the time.
Maggie, Friday, 8 May 2009
Caroline Pitcher - well oh my god - you've just realised that it's your responsibility to actually ensure your pets are safe - I am astounded. Of course you have to pen them in - and that is actually better for the hens welfare if they feel safe, and most probably more natural anyway. I take it hens in the wild would find saftey in numbers and wouldn't be wandering about at night anyway. I really can't believe you think a fox eating something that you've effectively put out for them is a problem.
It was your fault your son's chickens were eaten and he became upset - however I'm sure he is quite happy to also sit down to a nice roast chicken dinner of a weekend - at least now he realises that things do die to feed others. My grandparents lost all their chickens and ducks in a similar way - entirely their fault, the coup was rubbish and didn't even have a cover on it. Tough
For sara, Friday, 8 May 2009
Yawn- read some books. Fox hunting has no role in controlling the fox population and the town v country angle is getting very boring. plenty of people in the country do not agree with hunting, plenty of people in cities agree with it. Don't tell me that all country folk are experts in fox ecology as the numerous posts above clearly show it is not the case.
Ginny, Friday, 8 May 2009
My comment is a follow on to Allie's post. Terrier Men also hamstring "baggies" to turn them lame and break their jaws so they can't defend themselves against the dogs. Hunting is despicable and the ban must stand.
DNS Digger, Thursday, 7 May 2009
It makes me laugh that you are all so predictable and that you jumped in and commented exactly in your normal stereotypes.
Can none of you see that you are being manipulated by advertising and the reactions are just what they wanted.
Most of you really are not very conscious of the way your thoughts are controlled by media, are you?
This campaign is run by CBS Outdoor, registered via their ISP, Titan Internet.
I suggest we all write to them and ask them who is paying and why. However, given the note below the comments box which says ("I am happy for Time To Consider to use my comment on this site and on London Underground as part of this campaign.") I suspect it is London Underground just playing with your heads in a rather lame copy of an excellent airport advertising campaign by HSBC last year.
Allie, Thursday, 7 May 2009
I notice there is little mention of the vile role played by terriermen on this forum. From blocking badger sets and rabbit burrows to erecting temporary electric fencing, they cause wide spread mayhem in the countryside they claim to love. It's not unusual for them to trap a fox the night before a hunt (to bag it and release it on the day) and slash it's paw pads so the hounds have a blood scent to follow or sever it's archilles.
Allie-In Response To Caroline Pitcher, Thursday, 7 May 2009
Caroline, in 20 years I have never lost any stock to a fox. However, I have lost a cat to a rampaging pack of hounds.
Alien, Thursday, 7 May 2009
To pro-hunting, foxes hunt small animal for food and it's totally natural life but not people with the hound pack out for fun. Maybe it needs new generation to solve this conflict. It's very tiring to argue with people who just selfish but deviate that they do it for others
Manda, Wednesday, 6 May 2009
This is cle arly about the soc ial clas s di vision and not hun ting.
Yes who is payi ng for this? Governme nt likely?
Foxgun Tom, Wednesday, 6 May 2009
Excuse my ignorance, but is this exercise a campaign or a poll? for a few weeks now the pro'hunting lobbyists have been in the majority if its a poll? but it clearly states at the bottom of the page its a campaign! If it is a campaign then a campaign strategy has obviously been worked out, for or against? Can I ask the organisers of this campaign a clear and concise question, are they in support of hunting or not ? and how will they use this information? Can I have a direct answer please from the organisers??
Still Hunting
Tom Chalmers (aka) Foxgun Tom
N Reed, Wednesday, 6 May 2009
What a ridiculous survey. Of course, it is neither, it is a sociable activity which anyone can enjoy, not just an elite as you suggest.
Caroline Pitcher, Wednesday, 6 May 2009
Having had my 12 year old sons flock of 24 rare breed hens picked off one by one by a fox - and seen his misery when he found the remains, I wish our local hunt was allowed to control the fox population as in the past. We now have to pen the hens in to a small area. The reality is that free range means free meals in the countryside without fox control.
The Manc, Tuesday, 5 May 2009
Use to love that Tetley's Bitter. Never considered that it had anything to do with pest control?
Olot, Tuesday, 5 May 2009
Estos dias atrás he estado en London y he visto los carteles de "Time to Consider". Nosotros en España tambien tenemos tradiciones crueles como las corridas de toros y otras muchas "tradiciones" que me parecen inmorales.
Creo que el daño que hacemos a cualquier ser animal, vegetal o a la tierra misma de alguna manera nos lo hacemos a nosotros mismos y tarde o temprano pagamos las consecuencias multiplicadas.
Anya Temperley, Tuesday, 5 May 2009
Maggie - it just goes to show what a ghastly amount of old tripe they like to spout and demonstrates alarmingly poor husbandry on the farmers part.
All those defending fox hunting as a fast, efficient, humane form of 'pest control', science and statistics are not on your side.
A lone fox is frequently pursued on rough terrain for over an hour by a slathering pack of hounds and riders. Numerous independent studies, both here and internationally, have confirmed severe physiological effects on the body as a result of the chase alone. Haemorrhage of the heart and lungs. Congestion of the kidneys. A breakdown of muscle tissue and severe brain damage. Those who meet with the jaws of the pack have their flesh ripped from their bones, their soft under belly punctured and their intestines ripped out whilst they scream and fight for their lives.
Maggie, Monday, 4 May 2009
AP - I'll look out for latex glove clad foxes with their paws up sheep's bums then on my nightly stroll tonight! Or perhaps I'll see one with it a calf 5 times it's size stowed under its armpit. Somehow I don't think fox damage is particularly high on the 'serious threats to our nation' agenda at the moment. Oh my god since the ban we must have become some dark land of the foxes! Anyone see 'Live at the Apollo' this week - classic , satyrical and yet bang on look at the hysteria whipped up by the hunting fraternity!
AP, Monday, 4 May 2009
If people had any idea of the damages foxes cause, they would support fox hunting. It is a necessary, efficient and traditional form of pest contro
Maggie, Monday, 4 May 2009
Anya - completely agree, a lot of things foxes are accused of are absolutely ridiculous - I recently watched a clip of men out lamping at night. They came across a sheep lying on it's side with most of it's intestines protruding out of it's rectum. It had quite obviously suffered a rectal prolapse and been left there to get on with it (they found another dead sheep which had quite obviously been there for days and not been found ot removed by the farmer) these guys made a comment along the lines of 'now people can see what a fox is capable off' - I mean are we now supposed to believe that a fox is capable of turning an adult sheep on its side, keeping it there, while it snaps on some surgical gloves, sticks it's paw up the sheep's backside and pulls out its intestines! Absolute sensationalist rubbish! To top it off, while they were chuntering about how 'evil' foxes were, they left the sheep like that, still alive to suffer for god knows how long, despite having guns and the ability to put it out of its misery! Astounding stupidity and hypocrisy.
Anya Temperley, Monday, 4 May 2009
British foxes weigh between 10 and 14 pounds. The birth weight of the average calf is 100 pounds. Pudsey, do the math!
to russ, Sunday, 3 May 2009
i agree!!!! why be veggie and actively seek out food that looks like meat!!!!! e.g sausages and burgers why not make them completely different!!!!!
pudsey, Sunday, 3 May 2009
who killed the foxes natural predators? same story again isnt it? only this was for us to survive without fear, we should never of caused extinction i completely agree and i think this is something hunts will always have to be carefull of never to threaten the existence of a species. personally im more worried about my few remaining pet chickens, one pet duck and the remaining poor little lambs than one greedy fox. we have some one near me that releases city foxes and a couple weeks ago one of these foxes stood its ground to me whilst i raced to get my chicken that was still alive out of its mouth fortunately my dogs high speed persuit done the job, a couple days later a neighbour was checking a cow that was calving to find a fox behind it grabbing at the calve on its way out city foxes dont belong here and they are killed very quickly normally after being struck by a car a few days before and by bleeding to death shame someone doesnt get the idea and be more humane.
Nicholas Bazely, Saturday, 2 May 2009
I am Sickened that people would even dare to say Hunting is a birthright. Hunting is a horrifying sport, if you can even call it that, in which an innocent animal is hunted down by a bunch of snot nosed cowards on horses! Animal Cruelty is illegal, and Hunting is one and the same!
Maggie, Friday, 1 May 2009
Interesting - language impairments have actually been linked to offending and reoffending rates in this country
Russ, Friday, 1 May 2009
Kill animals for food. That could also apply to some vegetarians. By the way, why does vegetarian food in Tescos look like bacon?
Interesting, Friday, 1 May 2009
I am starting to see a direct corollation between the inability to read and write in English, and the need to kill animals for fun and break the law. Hmmmmm.
Maggie, Friday, 1 May 2009
Not too far away - all of your points are correct. Many even admit publically to breaking the law and therefore being guilty of criminal activity. If they can't stay within the law, which let's face it went extremely easy on them, then let's make it tougher I say.
To Not Too Far Away, Friday, 1 May 2009
Firstly, it's rather amusing that you don't appear to see the irony that you, a lone individual, was set upon and attacked by a gang/pack whilst minding your own business. Secondly, hilarious that you are finding fault with the police for collaring you for lamping. Fox hunters have been breaking the law for years...
*Trespassing on to land and property where they are known to be unwelcome, causing no end of damage with their horses and packs.
*Taking puerile and vindictive revenge against those who oppose them-often involving criminal damage.
*Blocking badger sets
*Attacking hunt monitors
Not to mention flagrantly breaking the Hunting Act!
Ginty, Thursday, 30 April 2009
if hunting was going to wipe out foxes after 300 years or more there would be none left by now,and they get killed many other ways to. we keep them alive u tickooooooossss. so whats your point...
sado;s waste of do gooders money your fighting a lost couse go an save the whale and leave us contented pepole alone.
roll on next season
HAPPY HUNTING!!!
jane, Thursday, 30 April 2009
birthright
Kristen, Thursday, 30 April 2009
Roger - all hunts catch the old and infirm???!!! - urm aprt from the hunts that dig out and the hunts that go cubbing in autumn when the young and the viable are torn apart. Once again your contradictions are astounding. As for the townies 'not having seen a baby lamb being eaten as it's born' - I doubt many farmers have witnessed that either or there would be a myriad of video evidence to prove that foxes actually kill lambs - who hasn't got a mobile with a video taking facility these days? - and to be honest if the farmer has seen a fox trying to eat a lamb being born and stood around doing nothing to prevent it tough. You see once again your claims really dont ring true and certainly can't be verified by concrete evidence. Once again you are subscribing to the myth and unfounded anecdotes bandied about by the hunting fraternity in order to make farmers think the fox is their number one enemy and therefore grant them access to their land. In the meantime the farmers REAL enemies - the EU and Tescos are busy putting some of the final nails into British farmers' coffins. Fools - well what goes around comes around.
Thomas, Thursday, 30 April 2009
As a city dweller, I know little about hunting. Perhaps counter intuitive but hunting people always seem to be at peace with what they do. A quick read of the paper this morning would show you that there are few people at peace with themselves in a city. It may not be a birthright but it does less harm than young city dwellers do to each other and that is where are focus should be - not on something we are not qualified to comment on. A birthright perhaps is a right to live in a city where I am not worried about what will happen to my young children today.
Roger, Thursday, 30 April 2009
Hunting has nothing to do with birthright. The average city dweller enjoying their roast lamb on Sunday lunch time has not seen a fox eating a baby lamb as it is being born. All hunts, hunting with hounds catch the the old and infirm. The young and healthy fox's live and kill another day.
Mark, Thursday, 30 April 2009
Maggie - remember we talking about people who consider having a a bloodied/excrement covered brush smeared over their faces a glorious coming of age moment.
Mark, Thursday, 30 April 2009
Eddie S - Re: your comment: "At the moment we should all be happy as the sun is shining and the hunting season is over until the Autumn"
You're sweeping cub hunting under the carpet there! Oh sorry, I forgot, that's hush hush in the hunting fraternity. Barely weaned cubs being flushed from their earth's by terriers before having their entrails ripped out by the hound pack. I understand why they want to keep that quiet!!
To Pudsey, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
Who killed the foxes natural predators? That's right Hunters did.
For Andrew, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
The fact that the picture showing a group of showjumpers on their way to a competiton has been mentioned approximately 20 times now and that indicates that pro hunters neither listen or read other peoples points of views. Ignorance? Looked in the mirror lately?
Andrew, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
The fact that the photograph shows a group of show-jumpers on their way to a competition indicates the astonishing level of ignorance about the reality of hunting displayed by the majority of people in our increasingly urban country...
pudsey, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
this is all sooooo narrow minded!!!! it is not wrong it purifies the fox population since the ban i have seen so many foxes slowly and painfully dying of diseases and illnesses directly caused by a boom in population numbers. we are the only natural predators of foxes as with all animals the competition for food, nowdays being farm animals rather than prey, has always and always will drive predators to kill any others hunting the same food. hunts that let the death of a fox drag on are to blame not the ones that dispatch it immediately. the healthy foxes are to cunning and fast to be caught. a dogs naturall instinct makes it kill whatever it has caught fast not like a cat who will toy with it. hunting has been happening for so long in this country for many there is no other way of life and their heart fills with pride at a meet, its something you can guaruntee your ancestors done hundreds of years before you in the same method and the same clothing there are so many more things in this world that are far worse for example if you have a cow that is pregnant and she reacts to two tb tests they will take her, kill her, whilst the calf is inside then after all that they will grow cultures and say oh sorry she didnt have it!!! compensation does not even begin to stop such heart ache for the people who raised this animal. consider priorities before pointing the finger at the public for being cruel, look at the people pulling the strings.
For Raymond Barry, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
Good point but then wouldn't there be a shortage in bugs and worms?
Raymond Barry, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
As protection of wildlife, better that all cats be put down and we'd be many milions of songbirds better off.
Michael, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
Fox hunting has long been very poorly understood by most people; sometimes even by participants and others involved but particularly by the majority who are not.
The original rationale was the protection of livestock and their young - whether with four legged or fowl - and hence the wellbeing of those who depended upon them.
To control the numbers and locations of foxes and other predators was and is still a necessity. Those who have pursued this objective - whether in days of old or now - have hardly been confined to "titled toffs" or anyone with some kind of "birthright" but have included any and all in the rural community as a whole whose livelihoods (and in the past their survival) were and/or are thus threatened by predators including foxes.
The fact that this exercise has been allowed to take on the manner of a sport is actually neither here nor there; except that in this guise it might at least have become better organised and maybe more effective.
Furthermore, in the "real" wild - i.e. not simply the managed countryside of our green and pleasant land - foxes and other animals would be - and are - routinely hunted by other predators such as packs of wild dogs. Foxes are evolved, designed and built to deal with this ..... all too well, in fact, in view of how often an entire organised hunt fails to catch the fox.
In addition there is with a hunt no terrible grey area between the fox being caught on the one hand, in which case it is definitely "game over and lights out" in short order, or getting away unscathed on the other. I find this scenario far preferable to the physical pain, suffering and torture endured by a fox who is:
1. Shot, only to still scamper off and spend a protracted period in agony before death;
2. Trapped - which can be as bad a scenario as item 1., above, and foxes have even been know to chew their own leg off in order to free themselves;
3. Gassed - posing similar risks: not as easy and simple as some might have us believe ..... or;
4. Poisoned - posing similar risks again.
5. Not to mention the risks posed to other wildlife and sometimes even people by any and all of items 1 to 4 above.
I doubt that many would advocate the breeding foxes specifically to hunt them purely for sport, but in a scenario wherein there numbers and activities need to be controlled I believe that anyone even thinking of entering the debate on fox hunting must do just that: THINK about the fox and THINK about all of the above.
Eddie S, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
Maggie - I'm gald we agreed on something. Obviously not as the overwhelming majority (in fact we would expect a 99% to unanimous outcome of a referendum) of this country's population consider the acts you mention are defenceless; which is not the case for hunting.
Maggie, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
Agree with your last comment Eddie. However your point on protection of minorities is right to a certain extent, however murderers, rapists and paedophiles, theives, dog fighters, badger baiters, people who get kicks out of torturing animals are thankfully in the minority in this country, and yet we still legislate against their activities because they are subversive and unacceptable in a modern society. Or are you telling me that if they carry out their activities on private property that would be ok?
Eddie S, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
All the comments above clearly demonstrate the difference of opinion on hunting. So, here's my question: who is right? Don't worry, I'll answer that for you: pro hunting
Why? Because we should strive to live in a liberal society that only restricts acts that the overwhelming majority of the population object to. The anti-hunting lobby does not currently reflect the overwhelming majority but seeks to restrict the activities of those who wish to hunt, an activity which takes place on private property. And before you respond by banging on about the Act (nevermind the disgraceful manner in which the legislation was pushed through Parliament by our Government), may I remind you that "hunting" as carried out across the country is generally done so within the law (which is why there have been hardly any prosecutions). Oh, and if you don't agree with my overwhelming majority argument, don't forget that one of a demoncracy's fundamental roles is to protect its minorities and so if pro hunting is a minority (which I am pretty sure it is not) it still deserves protection.
At the moment we should all be happy as the sun is shining and the hunting season is over until the Autumn.
Maggie, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
The above has just been nicely illustrated by the statement of a young pro-hunt member of a 'lift the ban' group on a popular networking site. The statement expressed his wish that every UK town dweller contracts and dies of Mexican flu.
Maggie, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
Mark 'Break him up' is another phrase chanted in a manner that approximates some sort of se*ual gratification. Oh but remember none of them actually enjoy the kill! and the fox is apparently killed instantly!! Hilarious that they think people are still naive enough to believe that. Thankfully the age of everyone having access to education and a world of information has arrived. But you wouldn't think it given some of the claims here - and you're just expected to believe what they say remember, without question - because no one can possibly know as much about the countryside as someone sat on a horse charging about on it (most probably come down from the city anyway to their weekend retreat) or a man that enjoys terrifying wild creatures with a couple of terriers of a weekend. And of course anyone with an opinion that differs from them is of course a townie, jobless, useless, tree hugging, lentil soup eating weirdo. These people are teaching their children that it's ok to tear another living creature limb from limb because it is dirty, worthless vermin and they just happen to feel like doing it (strikingly similar to the insults they tend to levy at anti-hunters showing their hatred isn't just reserved for other animals). Those sentiments are extremely worrying in a modern day society.
Mark, Wednesday, 29 April 2009
What is sporting in hunting nocturnal creatures during the day? Pulling foxes from a bolt hole by their brush and hitting them over the head with a spade to stun them? What is it again hunters enjoy shouting at the hounds; tear 'im, rip 'im, eat 'im
Maggie, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
Lena Bridgewater - that's terrible but doesn't surprise me. I've watched clips of hunters physically as*aulting peaceful sabs - who were literally on a public footpath, he beat both men and the woman on the head with his crop as well as riding into them purposefully. He was from the Essex Fox Hounds. One was caught punching a female protestor in the head when he thought the camera had been turned off, another purposefully rode into a woman standing at the side of the road and broke her shoulder - nice to see they are such peaceful, law-abiding people! Violent people who like to take their aggression out on those smaller than themselves. Makes you wonder if they are right in the head really, afterall horse riding is the one of the leading causes of traumatic brain injury in the UK.
Jon, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
I'm definitely no fox lover - you just have to be criminally insane and need locking up to want to hunt them on a horse and tear them apart with a pack of dogs
Maggie, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
Lauren - you are probably right in the sentiments you expressed. The pro camp are like a bunch of spoilt children who have been told off.
Maggie, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
For Swampy - I completely agree.
Maggie, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
Pembrokshire - so you are saying that you stood by and watched the fox kill several newborn lambs? Or did you really just find them dead and scavenged in the morning? Because if you actually saw the fox taking them and did nothing there and then to try and stop it then what do you expect. However I suspect the second option is more likely.
And no Swampy - I have nothing to do with the advertising agent - antis just have very good, rational arguments - so no need to manipulate anything. You say 'it was just labour pandering to leafy lane londoners' well unfortunately for your cause the majority of the country live in big cities like london, therefore making their opinion count. How dare you suggest that someone who lives in a city does not have the democratic right to have an opinion and have that listened to by the government! Your conceit is remarkable - apparently no one who lives in a town can possibly have the ability to make a rational judgement based on evidence and moral values. Like I said by pandering to the few we are setting ourselves up for a mini dictatorship.
For Swampy, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
I sincerely doubt that Maggie works for the advertising company codegent. They are the people who this site belongs to. No-one whatsoever is modding this site. I note that you fallen for the stereotype that all anti's are lefty pinko tree huggers from the city. Well wake up, because that isn't true. Why dont you stay out of topics you clearly dont have the intelligence to understand, you blinkered fool.
Eris, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
How many foxes are killed? Hundreds, thousands?.Nothing compared to the factory farming conditions & what goes on in abatoirs. Get serious. If people are opposed to cruelty to animals it is in factory farming & abatoirs. Not hunting.
Swampy, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
Maggie, are you "modding" this poll. I really hope you are not editing any of the comments. Its looking that way! Trying to manipulate the outcome no doubt.
By the way it wasn't the majority of the country that voted for the ban it was looney labour pandering to the leafy lane london brigade.
Stay out of topics you do not fully understand!
Jake, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
The most natural way to control and manage the natural fox population is sadly by the use of hounds. They effectively ensure the "survival of the fittest", culling any weak, old and diseased animals and under stringent regulations can only operate during the winter months, Unbelievably, the current legislation allows the indiscriminate shooting of foxes under no guidelines by any individual through out the year including the breeding season when the vixens are often shot in pup. Understandably many people who do not understand hunting, do not approve of what appears to be the indiscrimante killing of foxes, however, it is by far and away the most efficient method of population control and those that do have an understanding of both hunting and the country environment should be left to get on with it.
Jo, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
Survival of the fittest is how a wild population keeps healthy and hunting, unlike other means of controlling foxes, does take out the weak and feeble, leaving the strong to breed.
Foxes do a lot of damage to wildlife especially ground nesting birds and many of those are now endangered so fox numbers MUST be controlled.
liz, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
why are there pictures of show jumpers on this advert....!! I think someone has got their hunting attire wrong and just used pictures of show jumpers to represent the hunt. Oh dear! Anyway, bring back hunting!
Lauren, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
Most people seem to think fox hunting is ok ( its their birthright) and tanks are ok( they're a deterrent)......excuse me, but what is going on here?
What's the point of the website you chicken and beggar loving people? Oh yeah, kill thousands and lets not take the rich people's favourite past time away from them.
pembrokeshire, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
First get the question right, it is not a birthright of anyone, it is a sport enjoyed by many, of all social classes in just the same way as football, rugby, swimming and walking, etc etc ................ although I appreciate some see fox hunting as brutality in the same way that I see street fighting on a Saturday between football fans as barbarian brutality. WHAT HAPPENED TO LIVE AND LET LIVE??
Most of the arguements have been re-kindled above, but I would like to thank the land owners who now allow trailhunting over their ground. I do not know how the foxes are being killed nowadays but it is not by hunting.
I for one lost several newborn lambs to the fox. They were not dead when the fox got them, it killed them - just another form of hunting?
Personally I think more time should be spent enjoying the countryside in which we live and less time moaning about those who do. Just go out and enjoy your sport, whatever it is. Even streetfighting after a football match, if that's what floats your boat.
Lena Bridgewater, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
My in law's own a small holding and several years ago asked the hunt to keep their hounds off of their land. Within several days fox scats had been spread over the windscreen of my mother in laws car and a note pinned under the windscreen wipers telling her to keep out of their business. It's pure brutality and the ban must remain.
Fed up, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
Stupid vindictive law which is unenforceable and has not saved the life of a single fox. Repeal it as soon as possible
(would that our government had spent as much parliamentary time debating our deployment in Iraq and Afghanistan)
Bob Millum, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
60 years hunting sometimes as an amateur whipper in has shown me a lot and one thing I do know this ban is utterly wrong and infringes my human rights. I will continue to follow hounds for as long as I am able to breath.
Daphne Thorne, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
Most important thing in my life after my family. We used to earn our living AND spend our spare time following hounds; now, thanks to government interference, there is no job for my husband, but we still spend our leisure time with hounds.
crossbreed, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
It's a birthright and there shouldn't even be a ban !!!
far to much time is spent on debating this issue,
why is this time not spent on the wars that are going on around the globe ?
Liz, Tuesday, 28 April 2009
Brutality...
There have been well documented cases of bloodied fox corpses being strung from trees, of their decapitated bodies nailed to fences together with hunt party calling cards crowing 'Welcome To the Real Country'.
The day after the hunt act was passed a box filled with the mutilated corpses of fox cubs was delivered the head office of the RSPCA courtsey of the Countryside Alliance. A despicable act of cruelty and a message mocking the Hunt Act. I would like to quote an extract from letter by the founder of The National Fox Welfare Society Martin Hemmington: ' I was called out by a lady who runs an animal sanctuary. For obvious reasons, with livestock like this, she had written to her local hunt and politely asked them not to hunt on or around her land. Two days later, a decapitated fox cub was placed on the lawn next to the picnic area. The first person to see it was her six-year-old son. We went to collect the body and arranged for an autopsy. This revealed that the cub [about four weeks old] had more than 36 bite marks consistent with an attack by a terrier. It had also been hit twice on the back, breaking the spine in two places (all this before death). And then, after death, it was decapitated, moved from the original place of the killing and placed on her lawn! Both the pictures and autopsy results are available if you would like to see them. The only person aware of her letter was the Master of the Hunt to which she wrote. This incident gained no publicity because the lady didn't want any more retribution considering that she had a large number of domestic animals on site. This is just one of many examples in which the hunts send out a warning. Many of these cases involve a dead fox left outside the door or nailed to a tree."
Sadly, these are just a few examples, yet they prove that hunting has never been about protecting livestock (more on that later) It's not about about culling (incidentally and absurdly, it's not unheard of for hunt parts to purposefully breed their own foxes ('bagged foxes') to guarantee a successful day out), it's about the thrill of the kill. Many of the pro hunt arguments are based on myths, the biggest being the destruction of livestock and loss of revenue to farmers. According to studies by Bristol University 's Mammal Department, in Wiltshire, 74.1% of the rural foxes diet was lagomorphs. Rabbits and hares. Ironically the biggest pest of all in agricultural farmering! 6.9% rodents, 11.7% wild birds and the remaining percentage consiting of earthworms, invertebrates, birds eggs and fruit. Less than 5% consisted of large mammals. Also bearing in mind that the average British fox weighs between 12-14 pounds, little more than the average 10 pound house cat, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to deduce that such a minute creature is hardly a threat to a robust ewe. In addition, renowned British field naturalist and BBC wildlife film maker MBE Eric Ashby (late) wrote in his studies re sheep worrying that it was found that foxes are actually attracted to the afterbirth rather than the lambs and sheep themselves. Admittedly birthing casualties were sometimes taken, along with occassional sickly lambs but healthy young and adult sheep were given a wide berth! Ashby, coincidentally, was also a victim of reprisals by his local New Forest Hunt. The most unfortunate myth of all that has come of a result of the Hunt Act is that the health of the fox population has suffered as a result! In the West Country, the 1994 epidemic of sarcoptic mange decimated the fox population. By 2000, it was still less than 10% of what it was pre mange. Hunts rarely pursue a sickly animal. If you have ever encountered a fox suffering from the latter stages of mange you will know that they are barely capable of walking, let alone running. Certainly no thrill in the chase! The final myth that I would like to dispel is the matter of culling, keeping down numbers. The average fox's natural lifespan is 14 years old, the same as a dog - yet 52% never reach their first birthday and 80% do not make it to two. Road traffic, hunting, lamping, snaring and unfortunate accidents, usually involving people, decimate their population. We can't ban cars, we can't erradicate building, growth and expansion but we can erradicate hunting! Until the Hunt Act is stringently enforced and harsher penalties put in place hunting will continue. Attacks on hunt monitors, legitimately going about their employment, will continue. Reprisals against ordinary people who oppose the hunt will continue. Please write to your MP and ask them to push for tighter laws on hunting.
As George Bernard Shaw said, 'The greatest sin towards our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them. That is the essence of inhumanity"
trn, Monday, 27 April 2009
on a good number of places i know our set up is the only reason the gun boys are kept away. i have seen and handled blind and rotting but still alive having been shot. heavy vixens without back legs from snares. foxes riddled with mange and and infection having been dropped out from cities. perminantly lame foxes from long potshots from the lamping brigade all sorts of really nasty stuff and it has upset me deaply- i don't make out to be a saint but to me that suffering is all wrong. i grew up with foxes and hunting and farming and that -all the stuff above which is still legal seems totally insane when compared to the way in which hunting works. and to clarify not all hunting is people in red coats galloping around very publically - most of what is done is quiet, un noticed by passersby and very early in the morning doing specific jobs on specific foxes for specific people by invite. i am sure this site is up to no good but if i can make one person realise the trueth by writing somthing then its been 5 mins well spent. come and learn i say, see what happens and don't listen to people who haven't seen what goes on.
trn, Monday, 27 April 2009
i am up all hours of the day and night looking after the hounds and my girlfriend works like hell making sure our horses are happy as possible.
trn, Monday, 27 April 2009
i won't start throwing towny the word about but what i will say is that there is no one who looks after hounds terriers horses and in a round about sense the fox as a race better than the hunting community.
trn, Monday, 27 April 2009
I work in fox hunting-have done for a long time-hopefully will continue to do for a long time. i'm not a murderer or cruel to animals or sick or a toff of any number of things i have been called over the years.
Chris Maddison, Monday, 27 April 2009
The need to erode another aspect of our heritage is an envy based barrage on the upper classes.
Alas, the gentry of yesteryear are a memory. Hunting is a way of life for those involved from Master to Kennel staff and the villagers surrounding the country ridden over.
I do not hunt and to be brutally honest in my teens I was vehemently against it, however when I looked at the situation I realised my opposition was not based on scientific fact or proven distress to the quarry but indoctrinated 'hatred' of the idea of chinless wonders playing out. Reasoned investigation and discussion led to my eventual realisation that I was wrong, a difficult admission for anyone, but there you have it.
Fact over propaganda. I am a supporter of the rights of country people to administer their own rights and freedoms.
jimmyboots, Monday, 27 April 2009
i want to see the ban thrown out its a load of bollox everything should have a season and be controlled in my eyes
Chas, Monday, 27 April 2009
ANYONE that equates this to dog fighting doesn't know his/her head from a whole in the ground. They are worlds apart.
Maggie, Monday, 27 April 2009
Hunter - it wasn't 'a politician' that banned hunting with hounds - it was the will of the majority of people that did. The fact politicians listened to the majority is very reassuring in a democracy like ours - when the will of the minority prevail that's called a dictatorship.
Maggie, Monday, 27 April 2009
Lambs - load of crap, if the lamb has half it's face missing it was most likely dead before this happened, and its face was likely pecked at by carrion birds such as crows and rooks that go for eyes etc. And if you want me to form some sort of disney image of fluffy lambs skipping in field into eternity you've got another thing coming - if the lamb hadn't died and had its face scavenged, in a few months it would be driven miles to the abbatoir, hopefully (not always effectively) stunned before having its hind leg stuck through with a meat hook and its throat slit - thats if it isn't exported live. So no I don't think even if I had seen a lamb with no face that I would ever agree with hunting.
Maggie, Monday, 27 April 2009
Orion, if everyone was allowed to act on deep rooted genetic compulsions murder would be legal - it is a fact that human beings are war-like and aggressive towards each other genetically - therefore you are saying that to imprison a murderer is to deny them their human right to act on their genetic compulsions. You may not be aware, but human beings have the ability to reason (unlike other animal species who act on compulsion) and decide not to do something when it is wrong or fundementally compromises the welfare of another being. Or are you saying that Bob the rapist should be let off because he was acting on a deep-rooted genetic compulsion to spread his genetic material?????????????????????????????????????????
For Orion - agree completely.
for Orion, Monday, 27 April 2009
1. The amazonian tribesman hunts for food. He needs it to survive. Fox hunters dont eat foxes and can survive quite well without hunting.
2. There is no such thing as an indigenous population of this country, Every single person in it is the
descendant of an Immigrant. Even the name English betrays this truth. The Angles came from Holland(ish). Saxony is in Germany, So being an anglosaxon makes you of dutch/german descent.
Orion, Monday, 27 April 2009
I have not voted as neither option is preferable. I do not think of hunting as a birthright but more as a deep-rooted genetic compulsion . I am genetically programmed to hunt and to deny my that is a breach of my human rights.
Neither is hunting in its self brutal.
To all those who have voiced and opinion in opposition to hunting, please ask yourself this.
How comfortable would you be telling an Amazonian tribesman that he is cruel and barbaric for continuing to hunt when the western world is just around the corner.
Please remember that when you are asking the indigenous population of this country to turn their back on their cultural heritage and rural traditions.
Lambs2, Monday, 27 April 2009
No I wouldn't.
lambs, Monday, 27 April 2009
if you had seen a lamb with half its face missing from a fox you would support hunting
Dale, Monday, 27 April 2009
BAN BANNING THE BAN!!!
CLH, Monday, 27 April 2009
We have a freedom of choice in this country.
Hunter, Monday, 27 April 2009
a totally ludicrous law that will be lifted soon and will allow us all to get back to what we have always done. no politician has the right to stop what is centuries old tradition & a legitimate means of pest control...any one who says its cruel clearly has no idea about the countryside & the animals within it!
BAN THE BAN!!
Maggie, Monday, 27 April 2009
Oh god the old townie point limping out of its stable again then! Despite born and bred countryfolk expressing their disgust at foxhunting. But it does the anti camp no harm if you overestimate your support so keep on with it.
Chris H - now advocating taking funding away from the RSPCA - nice shown of inhumanity yet again. Do you realise that the RSPCA receives no government funding and therefore relies on charitable donations to rescue, house, feed, medicate and operate on animals as well as paying their staff a wage, training new staff, running vehicles, paying building overheads etc etc. If they put animals to sleep it is the only alternative left, and given there is only one limited pot of money that they can draw from it is inevitable that at some point they will run out of resources and have to put animals to sleep. I have worked with the RSPCA and ending an animal's life is the last resort, and is usually done when the animal is dying or so badly injured or neglected that it can't be saved and rehomed. If you've got a problem with animals being put to sleep then you might like to turn your ignorance in the direction of irresponsible owners. I find your objection to a quick, painless death entirely hypocritical given the horrendous suffering you like to inflict upon another creature - and all for your own enjoyment. But no - you go ahead tell people to stop donating and see what you get - streets full of packs of stray dogs and cats, horses left to die in fields or caught up in the ropes that tether them, badger baiting, dog fighting, etc etc. Idiot
Johnny Reb, Monday, 27 April 2009
Gpunk there are indeed exceptions to every rule.
Unfortunately here in the countryside, it is indeed townies that cause the bulk of the problems for the countryside.
We have townies 'escape' from the towns to come and live amongst us, then do their utmost to turn the place they move to into the very things they supposedly try and escape from.
I do know many townspeople that do indeed have a clue, and I would not qualify them as 'townies' as a result, but the word 'townies' has come to express a very real problem mentality a section of the population has.
In a way, 'townie' is a very definitive hat, and if it doesn't fit you, then you obviously don't have to wear it.
Believe me Gpunk, my rant against townies is well justified, but even townies can grow up and wise up. I can say this, because I used to be one of those vegetarian bunny hugging townies too.
As the old saying goes, "You can fool all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time".
This boy won't get fooled again, that's for sure.
Charlotte, Monday, 27 April 2009
If we agree that the fox population needs to be managed then hunting is the most natural and humane way of doing so.
As for birth right the hunt provides jobs within rural communities banning hunting penalises the poor who rely on the hunt for their livelihoods not the rich - they are just pis**d of!
People should understand hunting before passing comment or becoming for or against something they know nothing about!
chrissiew, Monday, 27 April 2009
Yawn, I have no time to read the whole thing, I am a country person and spend most of my time from dawn till dusk outside, not stuck in an office with a computer. I merely came to this site to add my opinion to the vote! (As is my right).
Cheryl, Monday, 27 April 2009
If foxes need controlling, shoot them. Don't chase them endlessly across the countryside and rip them to shreds with a pack of hounds. Don't block them into their earths, dig them out and release them in right in front of the hounds to get torn limb from limb. Don't send terriers into their earth to attack them, and then have men dig them up and belt them round the head with shovels. I am under no illusions about shooting and know it is not kind either, but as an active anti, born and bred on a farm, and still living in the countryside, I have witnessed close up the barbarity of the hunt. I have probably seen more than most of the field, and believe me, it makes me ashamed to be human.
Chris H, Monday, 27 April 2009
LABOUR will regret what BLAIR and Brown allowed to happen. It gains no votes. It will loose them possibly 1000's of votes in key marginals. This is all that matters. Roll on the ELECTION. Do not give money to the RSPCA, they obviously use it for political purposes whilst 'euthinasing' healthy dogs. They are horrifingly too quick with the syringe!
'Antis' wont just go away after the repeal, what is needed is proper laws and effective enforcement to control the activities of such belligerents. Hunts going about their lawfull activities have a right as much as anyone to protection under the law. Lawfull expression of protest yes, but no more. No harassment. In a democracy such as ours this is how it is supposed to work. no tiny minority should hold sway. What political 'deals' were done to allow 'The Ban' ? Soon it will come back to haunt misguided Labour. They have really lost their way having come to power on the crest of a wave, money in the bank and a booming economy! They can only 'Blame the previous government' for their good fortune! How different things are now.
I am just a litlle frustrated voice in the wilderness, one of the vast silent majority.
I thank anybody reading this for their time, and wish you health and happiness!
saf, Sunday, 26 April 2009
Keep the townies out of all this. They know nothing of country life, animals, wildlife or nature. If they knew a bit more about hunting they would know that it is the most humane way of killing foxes - how else - traps, poison, snares??? Think of the poor farmers who struggle with their lambs and other young livestock. Keep hunting and ban the ban.
born to hunt, Sunday, 26 April 2009
KEEP THE HUNTING im only 14 and even i understand why we need to hunt you townies that have no idea should shut up and shove off we dont tell you what to do in the cities so why should you tell us what to do in the country!! my grandad was our hunt master and we still have all our hounds and horses and no laws will stop us keeping down the vermin numbers if we dont hunt them with thedogs we shoot them JUST FACE IT WE WILL KILL THEM HOW EVER! KEEP HUNTING AND BAN THE BAN!
BB, Sunday, 26 April 2009
This whole website is depressing cos it makes me realize how bigotted and inhumane so many people in the country are. So much for a more compassionate and kinder world to fellow man and animals. You would think it is the dark ages.
Yawn, Sunday, 26 April 2009
Chrissiew yes thanks for that, you must be the 16th person to mention that, As you would know if you had bothered to read other peoples comments
chrissiew, Sunday, 26 April 2009
Funny picture - they look like a load of show jumpers - not the correct dress for hunting - as those that know will know, hunt coats are made of Melton not Trevira - and they're wearing show-jumpers' hats!
NLB, Sunday, 26 April 2009
Hunting is the highlight of my winter. It's a great day out to spend with you horse and comrades - why all the fuss - let the country people decide what's best for the countryside.
dorset Em, Sunday, 26 April 2009
All this anti Blair stuff is bewildering. It was a free vote which the hunting lobby lost, quite rightly.
Maggie, Sunday, 26 April 2009
Barney - but how can it be? A countryman who disagrees with hunting with hounds? Surely there is no such thing! Ha ha - of course you'll be accused of lying and secretly hiding out in a highrise in the middle of a drug riddled inner city estate - just like I;ve been on numerous occasions.
Barney, Sunday, 26 April 2009
Oh! I'm a country boy, born and bred, by the way!
Barney, Sunday, 26 April 2009
BRUTALITY! As every right-minded person can see! Killing animals for fun is not a birth right. It's been proven time and time again that people hunt for 'sport' and not to protect livestock (it's not an effective way of protecting livestock anyway - which was a major part of why the huting ban came about). Imagine hunting being your idea of fun - chasing a terrified animal and then watching hungry hounds rip its body to shreds. Perverted.
Maggie, Sunday, 26 April 2009
Jane Evans - completely agree.
Jane Evans, Sunday, 26 April 2009
This is utter rubbish! Birthright? To rip an animal to shreds? Get a grip you sad people.
Maggie, Saturday, 25 April 2009
What not even if my family farm? My friends farm - build stone walls, work dogs, have plenty of stock etc etc etc. If you want to fall into the trap of your own stereotypes be my guest Dan - I won't stop you as it does your cause no favours whatsoever.
I didn't think there was a ban on shooting? But if you are going to big up hunting with hounds by making out it is more humane than shooting, and given how horrific you all think shooting is, and how bad every gunman is in the country - I'd expect that you'd be all for a ban on shooting. Or is the truth nearer to the fact that you don't actually care how much the fox suffers really, but will happily play the more humane card in order to try and garner support for your barbarism?
tracy, Saturday, 25 April 2009
maggie sorry did not reply earlier i have been galavanting around the countryside on my horse trying to find innocent animals to murder!!!!!! I in know way advocate the ban on shooting,
Dan, Saturday, 25 April 2009
You do what?
And never said you did, I just don't believe you have ever actually experienced the countryside in it's true light.
Maggie, Saturday, 25 April 2009
Dan - I do! Yep believe it or not I'm not writing from a high rise in Peckham! (nthing against Peckham you understand - just don;t know London very well)
Dan, Saturday, 25 April 2009
Sean! This just shows your ignorance! We are country people, we understand the countryside and it's creatures. Foxes have territories like most other animals, we know quite accurately where a fox is likely to be.
There are so many examples of foxes that are hunted annually, this is because a fox will live in the same area for it's whole life if it can, and much respect is paid to these animals, and they are rarely dug. The reason they get away is because they are fit and healthy. Now try reading my earlier point again, anyone with even a basic grasp of the theory of evoloution can see it makes sense.
Dan, Saturday, 25 April 2009
And Maggie, if you succeed and we have no reason to maintain the countryside as it is, will you take the shovels and saws from us and carry on our work? Will you spend days at a time working in apauling weather to lay a hedge or clear a ditch? Will you spend hours trudging through fields looking for a lost animal even though the wind is so fierce you could not hear it scream?
Because here's the truth for you, the English countryside is one of the most unatural environments in the World. It looks the way it does because it has been cultivated for many to serve the needs and desires of humanity.
Dan, Saturday, 25 April 2009
It's banned because hunting was never very popular over there and it would have been a waste of time to repeal the ban.
Sean, Saturday, 25 April 2009
Dan - I really can't see how the piece on sheep backs hunting up - it completely blows the tired excuse of them being a threat at all to sheep and lambs out of the water. I'm sure its also a consolation for the fox that after it has been subjected to the terror of being chased to ground, dug out and facing terrier-in flicted injuries underground that it is finally shot! Naaat.
As for digging out the 'problem fox' how do you make sure you've got the right one? Different foxes are known to use different den sites and earths of others? But then of course - you've got a big Naughty Fox DNA database haven't you? All the ones in hoodies are routinely arrested and swabbed! WTF - how naive do you really think people are.
Maggie, Saturday, 25 April 2009
David - I have no idea what question was put to me by Tom. Could you please repeat it - i can see a post by him making statements but nowhere does it ask me for a response. If he's suggesting I think foxes are the same as people then he has taken my comments completely out of context (what a surprise coming from a pro!), my point is that the attitudes involved in both activities is exactly the same - it is just pointed towards a different being - that attitude being that the being is worth less than you, that you have the right to do what you like to it whether that will incur suffering or not. I'm well aware of what has happened to people throughout the centuries, but perhaps without this concept of 'vermin' we may well have avoided a great many of those attrocities - but no be my guest instill some more of those values into your children and watch them happen again and again.
As for people harping on about Hitler continuously like dogs with bones (quite amusing to watch how you all pounce on the most tenous of support for your cause) - Dan is infact right, the plan was that once Europe was all under German control they were going to carve it up and grant every German a piece of land on which they could shoot. Have a quick look around at some other countries in Europe when hunting with hounds is banned - such as Holland, some of the most forward thinking and modern countries going.
Dan, Saturday, 25 April 2009
"the only thing i have against this form of hunting is that when the fox makes it home it should be left to fight another day not dug out and set about by the dogs apart from that i have no objections to this hunting"
Many hunters would agree with this point of view, and very often the fox is left, but if it is a problem fox who is taking livestock/game then often the farmer/keeper will ask that the fox be dug out. And the fox will always be shot by the terierman before being given to the hounds as their prize, after all what is the point in chasing their quarry all that way if they do not get to eat at least some of it.
Dan, Saturday, 25 April 2009
" "Its a little known fact than when Adolf Hitler came to power he abolished foxhunting in Germany,"
This is a well known fact actually and what are you implying here? Sounds like this is the emotive rubbish to me."
Yes, Hitler did ban foxhunting in Germany, but as with the Labour Government, he did not have the interests of the fox in mind. Many of his henchmen (Goering in particular, I believe) were shooting men, and as such wanted hunting banned because they wanted the fox population eradicated by game keepers rather than controlled by huntsmen.
Dan, Saturday, 25 April 2009
Maggie, about the point of foxes not taking sheep etc. Well that just backs up hunting. Naturally the fox is faster and smarter than the hound, this means the healthy, young foxes (the ones that don't tkae livestock) are rarely killed by hounds, and so hunting carries on the process of natural selection, and prevents widespread disease and inbreeding within the fox population.
Dan, Saturday, 25 April 2009
Maggie, about the point of foxes not taking sheep etc. Well that just backs up hunting. Naturally the fox is faster and smarter than the hound, this means the healthy, young foxes (the ones that don't tkae livestock) are rarely killed by hounds, and so hunting carries on the process of natural selection, and prevents widespread disease and inbreeding within the fox population.
David, Saturday, 25 April 2009
Maggie can you respond to Tom, please? If you can actually make any kind of logical or intellectual argument against what he is saying?
....or might he be right?
I guess no answer is an answer in itself.
Maggie, Saturday, 25 April 2009
I think you'll find the RSPCA is dedicated to working with Jewish and Muslim communities to bring religious slaughter into line with mainstream slaughter practices. And Russell - please answer me these -1) do you think that every animal slaughtered in a mainstream slaughterhouse is insensible before having its throat cut - answer is no. Because workers are paid on piece work the more the kill the better - hence some animals are also still conscious when they go into the scalding tanks etc.
2) Why do you think it's right for a you to commit a cruel act upon an animal but that it's not ok for someone belonging to an ethnic religious minority to do so? Smacks a bit of imperialism and racism to me.
Maggie, Saturday, 25 April 2009
For Russell you put the ws in
.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RSPCA/RSPCARedirect&pg=FAQs&articleId=1116592338074&topic=1112958900033&subtopic=1112958900098&previousPage=null
.rspca.org.uk/servlet/BlobServer?blobtable=RSPCABlob&blobcol=urlblob&blobkey=id&blobwhere=1109267162636&blobheader=application/pdf
johnny, Saturday, 25 April 2009
the only thing i have against this form of hunting is that when the fox makes it home it should be left to fight another day not dug out and set about by the dogs apart from that i have no objections to this hunting
21st century fox, Saturday, 25 April 2009
"What about the many millions who where used as slave labour by Hitler and his henchmen and exterminated in concentration camps when they were no longer useful or able to work, Its a little known fact than when Adolf Hitler came to power he abolished foxhunting in Germany,"
This is a well known fact actually and what are you implying here? Sounds like this is the emotive rubbish to me.
Emily, Saturday, 25 April 2009
But... how do we even KNOW what these people are doing? maybe they are just out for a spot of horseriding through the countryside?
these images are highly emotive but overly simplified with no context provided. what is this website all about???
Russell S, Saturday, 25 April 2009
View MAGGIE?
Russell S, Saturday, 25 April 2009
What's Your veiw MAGGIE?
Russell S, Saturday, 25 April 2009
Want to talk about cruelty, Why do you rant on about Hunting, when animals are slaughtered every day for Halal Meat. Not a word from the RSPCA or the likes.
Gpunk, Saturday, 25 April 2009
@ Johnny Reb. A perfectly formed and informative post. As an anti I found it an interesting read until......... these 2 words. " STUPID TOWNIES" You let yourself down with that. You asumed as most people do with the stereotype that all anti's are "tree hugging leftie, hippy, liberal, people who know nothing of the country. Not one of those words can be attributed to me at all. I am a Tory supporting member of Her majesties armed forces who has lived the vast majority of his life in the country. I urge you as someone who clearly has a brain to take a step back and ditch your stereotypical views and educate your friends that many people from many walks of life have many different opinions. Mine? My opinion just happens to differ from yours. Dont lower yourself to the petty name calling and asume that all antis are stupid.
steve s, Friday, 24 April 2009
There have been a few comments like "we dont need to hunt to survive so why do it"
and "the human race is evolving and hunting is no longer required"
Is everything we do just done for survival? we have evolved into a race of gutless lazy useless slobs that seem to be happy to be invaded by all and sundry,happy for our teenagers to breed indiscriminately and spend there whole lives leeching off society. Happy to be importing diseases that had been almost eradicated by our vaccination programmes, Happy to spend millions aborting polish pregnancies at our expence and not a word is said against it.Happy for our young to shoot each other,happy for them to fill their veins with all sorts of unimaginable filth.
Happy for children to be fed on ready meals and other rubbish that makes them ill.
Happy for child molesters and murderers to live on the same streets as ordinary people.
I WILL HUNT AND KILL THINGS FOR AS LONG AS I LIVE BECAUSE I B****Y WELL ENJOY IT i seek not to justify what i do with reasons such as pest control, valid as they may be.
F**K THE BAN I DONT CARE IF ITS REPEALED OR NOT I WILL STILL BE OUT THERE
be happy for me, a pure bred Englishman in his own land
Foxgun Tom, Friday, 24 April 2009
Maggie!!
I noticed you did'nt respond my comments to hunting and your mention of the slavery issue!!
Tom Chalmers (aka) Foxgun Tom
Ps: I'm still supporting Hunting!! and supporting Amnesty International in the Campaign to Abolish International Slavery
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Chalmers, 6 hours ago
Maggie, 1 hour ago
Chris - you are quite right. Funny you should mention the slave trade - kind of started around the same time that chasing, torturing and then killing a fox came into vogue! Funny that eh?
_______________________________________________________________________
What a load of emotive rubbish!! you have no concept or understanding on the issue of slavery as is clear, from your post above!! equating the the inception of the slave trade with the time that foxhunting came into vogue!!, just to score points? slavery has been around for millenia, what about the Israelite slaves taken out of bondage by Moses as mentioned in the bible?, The Portugese and Spanish exported African slaves into the Americas at a time when foxhunting was'nt in vogue and neither of these two countries even at the present time show an interest in fox-hunting
What about the many millions who where used as slave labour by Hitler and his henchmen and exterminated in concentration camps when they were no longer useful or able to work, Its a little known fact than when Adolf Hitler came to power he abolished foxhunting in Germany, My own family and Clan members were victims of the slave trade many of them were banished from Scotland, for taking part in the 1745 rebellion and many of them died while being transported and used as forced labour in the sugar plantations of the Carribean and West Indies, Foxhunting was'nt in vogue then either!!
Equating Slavery with foxhunting shows a degree of ignorance and and downright stupidity of the concept of slavery which still exists today in many parts of the world where people are still suffering and dying in bondage!!
As for me, I'm still supporting Hunting!! and supporting Amnesty International in the Campaign to Abolish International Slavery
Tom Chalmers (aka) Foxgun Tom
Johnny Reb, Friday, 24 April 2009
Anyone seen what happens to foxes when left alone?
Before long their numbers are out of control, and they start going down with diseases like mange.
Any of you ever seen a fox with mange?
I normally shoot foxes in the lead up to lambing, through lambing, and then once the lambs are at a safe enough size to not be at risk, I stop.
Three times in the last 20 years or so, I have seen fox numbers get so high that mange became rampant, and one of the worst things I have seen is a fox covered in sores with a few tiny wisps of its coat left. I have seen that too often.
In years like that, I don't stop shooting foxes when the lambs are safe, I stop shooting foxes when the numbers are thinned enough to eradicate the mange.
Three times myself and my friends have had to do that, and each time, by the following autumn. we had thinned numbers enough for the local fox population to be fit and healthy again.
I've never hunted foxes on horseback, and never would (the brakes are terrible). My effort is primarily around control of overall numbers, and I can't do anything much (except by luck) about the foxes that cause most of the problems.
Those old foxes have seen it all, and it's almost impossible to get near enough to them to get a safe shot at them at night (maximum safe range for a night shot with a lamp, is about 300 yds, and the old foxes thta cause most of the problems, will keep a constant 400 - 500 yds away from you, watching everything that you are doing).
The only method of fox control that can do anything about the real problem foxes, is fox hunting on horseback. Some of you might not like that reality, but there it is. Foxes do need to be controlled, just like deer need to be controlled, just like crows need to be controlled.
Before the First World War, my grandfather almost never saw a wild rabbit. The Countryside round here was full of a rich diversity of wildlife. We had the best grouse moors in the Country, outstanding partridege shooting, waterfowl, everything you could think of. Due to the huge number of small sporting estates here, and their gamekeepers.
The War saw those gamekeepers largely killed off, the sons of the estates were largely killed off, and by the time my grandfather came home from the war, there were rabbits everywhere.
Rabbits became so bad, it was impossible to farm anything other than rabbits. Thankfully, before Government killed that market too (releasing myxamatosis), there was a huge demand from the cities for rabbit meat which helped thinsg rural along pretty well.
In the years since, with almost no gamekeepers, and no sporting estates, our diversity of wildlife has plummetted, the populations of pests and vermin have increased astronomically, and STILL STUPID TOWNIES AND POLITICIANS CAN'T STOP INTERFERING WHERE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND OR EVEN COMPREHEND THE DAMAGE THEY ARE DOING!
I tell you this, when you run out of food in the towns, STAY THERE.
There will be no place for you and your attitudes out here, and I suspect fox hunting will get a temporary reprive, while hunting eyes get turned to addressing insanities.
sean, Friday, 24 April 2009
hunting will never stop so stop moaning and go hug a tree or make yourself a nice lentil soup !
Maggie, Friday, 24 April 2009
Fact is those methods are likely to be used whether hunting with hounds is present or not, by legalising HWHs you're just adding to the suffering, not subtracting anything unless of course shooting is banned.
Maggie, Friday, 24 April 2009
Fact is those methods are likely to be used whether hunting with hounds is present or not, by legalising HWHs you're just adding to the suffering, not subtracting anything unless of course shooting is banned.
Maggie, Friday, 24 April 2009
Tracy - so that would suggest we need to ban shooting as a method of control then if it really does compromise animal welfare in the way suggested - don't you agree?
tracy, Friday, 24 April 2009
Also There is very little moral distinction between fox hunting and eating fish or owning a cat. MacDonald does not recoil at the idea of fox hunting, and finds it morally indistinguishable from such common activities as eating fish or owning a cat. He notes that "people's gastronomic enjoyment outweighs their concern for the consequences of harvesting billions of fish annually, as their enjoyment of their cat's companionship outweighs regret at the deaths of millions of hedgerow birds annually."
tracy, Friday, 24 April 2009
Also from Mr Macdonalds book Foxhunting is not the most cruel way to die. MacDonald notes that most kinds of "natural" death are cruel, and that immortality is not an option for the fox. Is "natural" starvation, disease or predation more cruel, or less cruel, than an "unnatural" death by hunting, which is likely to be swift and sure? MacDonald notes that "If hunting stopped, the same number of foxes, or even more, would be killed by people using other methods such as traps, poison, snares or night-shooting," as most fox that are purposely terminated in the UK are on bird-shoot estates where the fox is in direct competition with the "excess" birds released into the wild. As MacDonald notes, hunters are willing to pay £10 a bird -- fox are not.
tracy, Friday, 24 April 2009
You are never going to stop me hunting be it be on horseback with hounds, on the land with my lurcher and ferrets. Hunting is not just about chasing foxes.
Maggie, Friday, 24 April 2009
terrierman.com/macdonald.htm
link to above book review with relevant w additions
Maggie, Friday, 24 April 2009
Some conclusions drawn by a population Biologist, David MacDonald - a self-confessed 'hunter at heart' and featured on the website - 'terrierman.com':
"Foxes do almost no damage to sheep populations. After spending countless hours observing fox in sheep country, often at night and through infra-red goggles, MacDonald concludes that fox are not very fond of mutton and that they do very little predation on live lambs. Given almost any kind of alternative food source -- rabbits, bird seed, worms, baby birds, fruit or roadkill -- a fox will give sheep a miss. When fox do eat sheep, they tend to focus on already-dead detritus -- sheep tes*%cles that drop off into the field after bands are applied (MacDonald notes that he often finds fox feces containing these same undigested rubber bands), after birth, and even sheep dung from young lambs -- the latter loaded with still-undigested milk products. MacDonald does not deny that fox may kill a few very young (and perhaps already fatally weak) sheep, but such attacks are so rare they have never been filmed and are statistically negligible. MacDonald notes that in the fell and upland regions, where fear of fox predation is highest, sheep mortality is often 25% with many lambs born starving due to over-grazing abetted by a government policy that subsidizes overly-dense sheep production. With ewes in poor feed, and lambs borne wet on cold and windy slopes without shelter, lamb mortality is very high without any fox participation at all. The fact that fox, on occasion, scavenge the already-dead does little harm to the living".
Messer, Friday, 24 April 2009
To be honest, there will never be agreement between hunters and anti hunt people......one side will never convince the other that they are right.
I for one support the anti hunt peoples right to express there opinion and would defend that right.......I wonder how many of the anti hunt lobby could say the same?
The very fact that an unjust law that in one fell swoop criminalised one of THE MOST law abiding and upstanding sections of the population was called for and allowed to be put on the statute books is frankly........criminal!!
I wonder how many of the anti hunt people support the terrorists who have made the life of the workers at Huntingdon Life Sciences a living hell?
Those terrorists who threaten ordinary folks familys and even sink as low as to dig up dead relatives of people connected with HLS are the real criminals.
If imposing your will on others who are by and large good folk makes you feel proud then you have to look inside yourself and ask what sort of human being you are?
Justify, Friday, 24 April 2009
Just because we hunt foxes does not mean we do not respect our quarry! I have more respect for my quarry than i do the society we live in and its all down to crime on the streets hunting should never of been banned and one day soon we wil reapeal and we will win.Even if we dont we wont stop doing what we were brought up doing,and as for the artificial trail for the hounds i dont know a hunt in my area thats stopped hunting foxes with 20 couple of hounds out!
What the anti's dont know doesn't hurt them keep Hunting
Tally hoo fellow hunters
WOW, Friday, 24 April 2009
its all about the money isnt it
8 July 1999 - Prime Minister Tony Blair makes a surprise announcement that he plans to make fox hunting illegal and before the next general election if possible.
12 July 1999 - Labour denies that Mr Blair's pledge is connected to an extra £100,000 donation it had received from an anti-hunt pressure group. The Political Animal Lobby (PAL), had previously given £1m to the party before the 1997 election.
PAL had also made donations to the Tories and the Liberal Democrats.
We should be doing this again, Friday, 24 April 2009
1 March 1998 - After the Foster bill passes its second reading in the Commons, the pro-hunting Countryside Alliance organises a massive protest rally in London. An estimated 250,000 people join the countryside march to protest against the bill and threats to other aspects of rural life.
13 March 1998 - Hunt supporters celebrate as the Foster bill runs out of time during its report stage in the Commons. The bill is talked out by hunt-supporting MPs who table hundreds of amendments to block the legislation's progress. Mr Foster pledges to fight on.
Tom Chalmers, Friday, 24 April 2009
Maggie, 1 hour ago
Chris - you are quite right. Funny you should mention the slave trade - kind of started around the same time that chasing, torturing and then killing a fox came into vogue! Funny that eh?
_______________________________________________________________________
What a load of emotive rubbish!! you have no concept or understanding on the issue of slavery as is clear, from your post above!! equating the the inception of the slave trade with the time that foxhunting came into vogue!!, just to score points? slavery has been around for millenia, what about the Israelite slaves taken out of bondage by Moses as mentioned in the bible?, The Portugese and Spanish exported African slaves into the Americas at a time when foxhunting was'nt in vogue and neither of these two countries even at the present time show an interest in fox-hunting
What about the many millions who where used as slave labour by Hitler and his henchmen and exterminated in concentration camps when they were no longer useful or able to work, Its a little known fact than when Adolf Hitler came to power he abolished foxhunting in Germany, My own family and Clan members were victims of the slave trade many of them were banished from Scotland, for taking part in the 1745 rebellion and many of them died while being transported and used as forced labour in the sugar plantations of the Carribean and West Indies, Foxhunting was'nt in vogue then either!!
Equating Slavery with foxhunting shows a degree of ignorance and and downright stupidity of the concept of slavery which still exists today in many parts of the world where people are still suffering and dying in bondage!!
As for me, I'm still supporting Hunting!! and supporting Amnesty International in the Campaign to Abolish International Slavery
Tom Chalmers (aka) Foxgun Tom
1949, Friday, 24 April 2009
1949 - Two private member's bills to ban, or restrict, hunting fail to make it onto the statute books. One is withdrawn, the other is defeated on its second reading in the Commons. The Labour government appoints a committee of inquiry to investigate all forms of hunting. The committee concludes: "Fox hunting makes a very important contribution to the control of foxes, and involves less cruelty than most other methods of controlling them. It should therefore be allowed to continue."
Messer, Friday, 24 April 2009
Just to make clear that messer via jamie is not me!!
Jamie you are obviously a very young or uneducated fellow (or both) so let me make a couple of things clear.
1. I have never myself or ever seen a hunter or dogs "rip up" anything, I have seen dogs kill prey quickly and with no fuss but no "ripping up" I am afraid to say.
2. Nearly every hunter I know has nothing but the utmost respect for there chosen quarry.
3. Hunters are some of the best naturalists I know, they love the countryside and the animals that live in it, they dont wipe out populations of animals....... they hunt and preserve.
The FACT is, without hunting and pest control we would not have the diverse wildlife in certain areas that we now enjoy.
I for one want to enjoy the countryside, hunt and enjoy wild food (not some TESCO packaged garbage full of god knows what)......I dont drink, I dont do drugs and I pretty much cant stand modern life........I just want to be left alone to continue my way of life.
I can tell you this much, I would rather my kids hunted and formed a love of the countryside than ended up drunk and fighting on the streets on a Saturday night.
example, Friday, 24 April 2009
Fox are predator vermin.
Shoot them and hang their stinking carcasses from a tree to warn off others. You should know they usually travel in pairs and there may be kits nearby.
Once they taste your chickens, they will be back for more again and again until you solve the infestation.
I live in a surburban area and they show up every so often and pet cats and Yorkshire Terriers get killed.
COME ON BAN THE BAN, Friday, 24 April 2009
Fox hunting is an activity involving the tracking, chase, and sometimes killing of a fox, traditionally a red fox, by trained foxhounds or other scent hounds, and a group of followers led by a master of foxhounds, who follow the hounds on foot or on horseback.[1]
Fox hunting originated in the United Kingdom in the 16th century, but is practised all over the world, including Australia, Canada, France, Ireland, Italy, Russia, and the United States.[2][3] In Australia, the term also refers to the hunting of foxes with firearms similar to spotlighting or deer hunting.
The sport is controversial, particularly in the UK, where a ban was introduced in November 2004.[4] Proponents see it as an important part of rural culture, vital for conservation and pest control,[5][6][7] while opponents argue that it is cruel and unnecessary.[8]
Messer, Friday, 24 April 2009
Marie and Maggie, thank you for your replys......at least they were not claptrap.
I dont buy into it I am afraid (but then I was never going to really)
Marie, I find it interesting that you would impose your will upon your friends, you dont sound like much of a friend to me.
To the two of you, is it just fox hunting that you find distasteful or all hunting?
Because if your objection is to killing animals, be it for pest control, food or whatever then I take it you are both vegan, dont buy leather shoes or any animal products?
If you are, then fair play.......you are practising what you preach.
If you do eat meat, buy leather shoes or use anything containing an animal by product then I am afraid you had better go an have a rethink on your position with regards to killing animals.
I still dont agree thats its right for someone to come along and tell me that I can no longer perform an activity that it has been perfectly legal to perform for thousands of years just because a small proportion of the population dont like it.
Lets be honest, the ban was bought and paid for with £1 million pounds worth of donations to the Labour party from so called "Animal Rights" organisations......it had absolutely nothing to do with democracy or popular opinion.......95% of the public coulnt give a dam as long as they can still go to the pub and get drunk.
messer via jamie, Friday, 24 April 2009
Bring your AK47 and the army with you you will still never stop me why dont you all go back to your day jobs and your lives and leave us country men to get on with our????
Jamie, Friday, 24 April 2009
Messer - by making the 'you can't deny me a natural behaviour' argument - how about the next time you're out ripping up an animal, I bring by AK47 with me (don't have one just in theory) and act on my natural instincts and rid the world of some genetic material I really think it doesn't need?
Maggie, Friday, 24 April 2009
To be honest the whole engineered scenario of a hunt with hounds is so far removed from what we'd do naturally anyway that Messer's argument is laughable.
Apparently most hunters never see the kill or even the fox - so if you are all following an unquenchable instinct to hunt something down, where does that fit in? Sounds like you might need therapy before your bloodlust gets turned upon a human subject.
Maggie, Friday, 24 April 2009
Messer - it is also a natural instinct to kill other human beings to defend territory, food etc - so I take it you're not going to stand in my way if I want to club you over the head if you happen to be preventing me from doing something I want to then, or maybe I can burn down your house with you in it because I fancy living where you do? Or maybe my male neighbour can come and take your wife and daughters because he has the urge for sexual gratification upon them?
You might like to take a look at some of Richard Dawson's work, which clearly shows how humans have also evolved to have 'theory of mind' and 'empathy' for the feelings of other sentient beings (obviously not in your case given your neanderthal tendancies) - it's what underlies our 'moral code' and has conferred a benefit upon us as a species - or we'd all be out stabbing each other - because in truth the pain of another person has absolutely no physical implications for you whatsoever. This theory of mind and empathy is what makes us human and humane.
Marie, Friday, 24 April 2009
"If any of the anti hunting lobby can give me a valid reason to deny another human being its natural behaviour other than they just "dont like it" then I will accept that. "
Because we have the intelligence to determine whether following our own instincts is detrimental to others (be it other humans or animals) and the conscience to act on that intelligence.
Homosexuals have no choice in the matter (despite what some people may think)- hunters have a choice not to hunt. Compring the two is as idiotic as comparing hunters to paedophiles and terrorists (they get a thrill from cruelty don't they??) Paedophilia has been theorised to be a sexual orientation so we should allow paedophiles to carry out their natural behaviour? When you look at how ridiculous that argument is then you can see how ridiculous your own is.
Oh, and please don't come back with the response that I am comparing hunters to paedophiles- I am not. Nor, by the way, would I ever suggest that hunters are cruel or bloodthirsty- I have friends who hunt and I understand their reasons, I just don't think they should be allowed to do it.
Messr is blinkered, Friday, 24 April 2009
The valid and educated reason is thus:
It is wrong.
Ok?
MESSER, Friday, 24 April 2009
Still no educated valid reason then?
jjs, Friday, 24 April 2009
Ban the thought police and carry on hunting.
Christine, Friday, 24 April 2009
So Messer, we women must now watch out for the male hero, club in hand, striding down the street and bashing us over the head and dragging us to his cave. That's natural instinct isn't it? Why don't you stand for the Anarchy party, because that's what your saying. You like the rule of law that says don't do this or that when it's protecting your home, family, car etc. when somebody following their natural behaviour takes a fancy to it or steals from it. You 'don't like it' either. What's the difference?
Bloke, Friday, 24 April 2009
If it was natural we would all be born on horses, you wouldnt have to train the dogs and alcohol would be freely available and you wouldnt have to brew it. Dont talk such cobblers Messr. Human beings evolved to trade slaves, is that ok with you?
Mary, Friday, 24 April 2009
Wow! Hunter, it's Copper's N*b. Support your local community basic skills classes - literacy for all. You've got plenty of time outside of hunting to broaden your intellectual learning base - there's plenty of room in your brain to broaden this out.Fancy bringing the police into it. You always call them to defend you on your nasty little killing trips. You seem such a nice simple person, that I wonder why I dislike you so much.
MESSER, Friday, 24 April 2009
Maggie the point is that its a basic human instinct, what you actually hunt has nothing to do with it.......do anti hunting people actually believe they have the right to tell another human being not to do something they have evolved to do?
Please anwser me this, would you tell a homosexual man that he can no longer be homosexual?
Would you tell a black man that its not right to be black?
I wouldnt dream of telling another human being not to do as nature intended them to do.
It is how human beings have evolved and like it or not, its in all of us to the core
Its as normal as happy, sad, anger, fear, greed, love......
If any of the anti hunting lobby can give me a valid reason to deny another human being its natural behaviour other than they just "dont like it" then I will accept that.
It better be a blooming good reply...........lol
mary, Friday, 24 April 2009
=
COPPERS N*B
Tally Ho, Friday, 24 April 2009
First drink on the way to the meet. Port at the meet. Hip flask to keep one topped up throughout the day. Chasing through England's glorious countryside on horse back in good company. Followed by a boozy tea.
Wonderful!!
Surely a day like that doesn't make one a bad person.
Mary, Friday, 24 April 2009
Hi Hunter, Can't even spell llok or f***. Yes you really need lessons. No I didn't respond to your deliberations regarding your nasty little pastime. That goes without saying. The level of brain power need to abuse animals is minimal that's why you're doing it.
You guessed my job - how clever!
Maggie, Friday, 24 April 2009
Svet and Christine - agree completely. They talk about removing the 'problem foxes with hunting' what now do the dogs/hounds (same thing) go out and sample every fox's DNA in the neighbourhood so that when a lamb dies and is scavenged by a hungry fox they can then pin point exactly which fox is responsible a week later! You really are all having the biggest belly laugh ever. As for cubs previously being able to grown old - again that would be rather hard when 6 months later they are trapped in a covert and virtually fed to a pack of hounds - yes nice and sporting what? Tally ho and all that.
Messer - yes we have evolved to hunt for food - I don't see many hunters sitting down to a nice bit of roast fox after an evening's hunting - again why it is so unnatural for humans to be hunting foxes -and for dogs for that matter which is why you have to teach them to do it. Left to themselves, the pack would naturally prefer a nice juicy sheep - after all how many hounds would a fox realistically feed?
TO, Friday, 24 April 2009
SYVT
What!!! Look back in the olden day what form of transport was used! Riding on a horse makes no difference if a horse didnt want someone on it im sure it could get them off it easy enough!
svet, Friday, 24 April 2009
sad how much people can be decieved about sports and entertainment like this, circus with animals etc..
HUNTER, Friday, 24 April 2009
Mary;
It seem rather funny that all you can comment on is my spelling. Does it llok as if a give a f*** noo! Give your head a shake you dirty scrubber!
svet, Friday, 24 April 2009
this is not a sport, this is slavery and sadism!! and not like we have a necessity to ride horses these days. people get their rewards by bitting horses and damaging their phisical health and well-being. in fact you have to be brutal to success in such 'sport'. nothing to be proud of...
see e.g. "We have a scientifically proven fact, which allows us to state that not a single horse feels pleasure from a rider being on his back. That is the sad physiological truth. All the discussions from riders and their "feelings" about what horse experiences under the saddle - are strained feelings, self-deception, fantasies and ignorance". - from Haute Ecole Nevzorov. (sheck his website for further info and video)
Christine, Friday, 24 April 2009
Dan how sad you are! Love the idea of dressing your children up, having respect (!) and hunting animals gives you a work ethic. Kids in inner cities don't have adults teaching them how to use a knife, but in hunting there are adults teaching children that all they have to do is ride a horse and follow some dogs to do the killing for them. What smartness, what work ethic, what respect! Get out a bit more Dan into the real world, or does a gruelling days work put you off?
MESSER, Friday, 24 April 2009
Its has nothing to do with if you approve or not of hunting, hunting is at the very core of every human beings DNA.
It as natural as breathing, sex, eating, walking.
Our eyes are at the front of our head, that makes us predators.
Its a very natural thing to do, if society told a homosexual man that he was not allowed to be homosexual there would be outrage.
If anyone can explain how one part of society can ban another from partaking in a totally natural process then I would sure like to hear there justifacation.
Untill that time, hunt and be proud, you are the keeper of a past that some would destroy.
TALLY HO!
Jane, Friday, 24 April 2009
Why don't hunters spend some time trying to repeal all animal protection laws. Animal sporting activites could then be put into an annual competition where the levels of pain and cruelty could be categorised for the buzz factor they give. Come on you hunters spend some time on repealing not just the hunting act, but any laws that give any animals protection. What fun you can have. Also a hound is a dog. It's not a stand-alone species!!
Mary, Friday, 24 April 2009
Hunter should spend some time away from his killing activities to learn some English
HUNTER, Friday, 24 April 2009
Believe this or not all you anti people will be very sad very soon i say no more than two years from now and the ban will be lifted/banned and maybe you will see charlie fox trooting across fields this time of year because i used to but not anymore purely pest controll and we no longer do it seasonal because of the ban!
HUNTER, Friday, 24 April 2009
Then:
True fact the ban never helped the fox at all there was a season when they would hunt and this time of year no-one hunted foxes we let them have there cubs and when they become pests they are delt with!
Now: I hunt all season round i sqeel the fox in and shoot them i get calls from big estates saying birds lambs are going missing i used to leave them alone this time of year not now in the past 3 weeks ive killed 8 vixens and 3dog foxes and the cubs sadly had to be dealt with,now its not something i enjoy doing killing cubs infact it saddens me! Before the ban foxes were controlled by hunts all over the country and number were kept nice and short now every fox im told must be delt with so the ban is worthless bring back hunting with hounds.Its faster death no pain and cubs are left to grow old untill they need to be controlled!
Maggie, Friday, 24 April 2009
We've all got laws to abide by - so get used to it. The law was remarkably tolerant in that it gave you a compromise - you can still ride to hounds, you just can't use those hounds to rip a fox to pieces. If you ask me the ban should be tightened and the loopholes sewn up.
If you really do believe hunting with hounds is far kinder to Mr Fox then why aren't you campaigning to have shooting wild animals banned? Obviously you don't believe that so strongly or really you couldn;t care less what level of suffering is involved because regardless of whether you are bouncing around on horses tearing small canines apart with bigger canines, shooting seems like it's here to stay - therefore you would only be adding to the foxes misery.
I don't see any pro getting on your soap box and campaigning for and end to shooting, which makes the whole ' hunting with hounds is more humane' sack of s*$t even less believeable.
Maggie, Friday, 24 April 2009
Again we see this page full of footstampers - no one's going to take my toys off me, not even a democratically elected government legislating in line with the will of the overwhelming majority of people? Funny isn't it if a burglar popped up and said 'no government's going to stop me burgling your house' you'd probably have something to say about it.
Maggie, Friday, 24 April 2009
Chris - you are quite right. Funny you should mention the slave trade - kind of started around the same time that chasing, torturing and then killing a fox came into vogue! Funny that eh?
Mont, Friday, 24 April 2009
When hunting was legal we used to see foxes in the fields around where we live in a hunting area as they were left alone through the summer.
Now hunting is banned they are just concidered vermin and destroyed. I have not seen a fox around for the last two years.
So who did the ban help, it was not the fox.
Bob Millum, Friday, 24 April 2009
Been doing it for 60 years no government is going to stop me. Where did they get the film extras to dress as showjumpers
JANE, Friday, 24 April 2009
Society trying to change nature is wrong. The fox is a hunter and will kill chickens for fun.
Chris, Friday, 24 April 2009
Heres a thought, during the emergence of the United states it used to be the slave owners RIGHT to keep slaves and the children that were born of slaves so that they can be slaves. Slavery and its activities was then abolished because it was deemed wrong and in humane.
Though the parallel is quite as similar, the premise is still there. Should a birthright still be allowed if it involves hunting down and killing a fox for sport even if it means that the fox should be killed in a highly painful and undignified manner?
Surley there are more discrete and dignified ways of killing and controlling pests?
sid, Friday, 24 April 2009
never wore a red coat in my life but have always been involved in hunting. even though those that wanted it banned thought it was all about the horse and hound, oh how wrong you were. next time you s*%$ your self when a rat comes near you dont call me, try and pick it up, tell it, it is a naughty thing and not to bother you again see where that gets you. when you are over run with rabbits and your full crop of mung beans have been destroyed, dont call me. ask it to eat the wild grown foder and see where that gets you.
i have seen more humanity shown by huntsmen and women towards what ever they hunt than has ever been shown by the anti hunting thugs that hide their face and beat up women, children and the old.
a hunter respects both his fellow man and his prey what ever the class.
Sim1, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I have always thought jumping wooden poles was clearly brutality!! this campaign has nothing to do with hunting only an a not very bright person would use a picture of show jumpers!
Graham, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Hunting controls the mange ridden city foxes that the city council's, RSPCA, or whoever catch them and dump them all over the countryside, infecting our healthy foxes and also our working dog's whether they are sheepdog's gun dog's or terriers .
REPEAL THE BAN and let hunting people get on with the most humane way of controlling foxes.
weejohn, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Maggie , you stated "'human right to be cruel' doesn't actually exist!
i am very sorry to tell you but it most definately does in the form of halal and kosher slaughter. they have the right to slit the throat of an animal without the aid of any kind of stunning method.
Simon, Thursday, 23 April 2009
. Looks like another anti stunt----------- EVEN the picture used is of a group of SHOWJUMPERS as you can see just by their red coats. Just like the sabs who mobbed showjumpers at a county show a few years ago, they think anyone in a red coat is after killing foxes etc.
boabtheplumber, Thursday, 23 April 2009
by the looks of things, this must be a campany run by female, count the number of comment posted
froggy, Thursday, 23 April 2009
keep on hunting and kill the fox pests - they leave our chicken and lambs to die in terror and agony! let the country stay country side and the townies stay in your towns!
what the hell, Thursday, 23 April 2009
charlotte
you havent a clue pet! Keep hunting if they want us to stop they have to confront us! Many years ago when they tried to ban the beagles they paid us £40 a day back then to go bash them you dont have a clue about country life! I wouldnt do it know but try stopping me when i appear in court i will ask for my charge of killing vermin un-humainly to be reduced to murder maybe ill get less time for it!
WEX, Thursday, 23 April 2009
We are living in a democracy, yet slowly but surely the feeling of a dictatorship is here. Our country is losing its identity and our traditions are vanishing. We constantly hear about the minorities deserving a voice and equality. Well we deserve our right to hunt and our right to live our lives the way we so feel. FU_K THE BAN HUNT FOREVER
Dan, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Wrong, foxes weren't classed as vermin when they were hunted. Now they are just shot mindlessly, heavy vixens, young healthy foxes, all of them. Hunting was a form of natural selection that killed off the weak and old.
charlotte, Thursday, 23 April 2009
i voted brutality and im in the country, and for the last time foxes are not classes as vermin!!!!!!!!!
Dan, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Maggie. how about you tell me what method is more humane rather than ask us to defend something without you providing any evidence against it.
Maggie, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Ah William - back with the lame old stereotypes I see. Nothing new there then.
Maggie, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Waz - no one's talking about Halal because that's a different topic. Yes it isn't very nice. As for fur - please google 'A shocking look inside Chinese fur farms' sit and watch all 15 minutes of the vid - I guarantee you'll not get a proper night's sleep for months. Then have a look at what goes on inside a British slaughter house - a world of difference. I agree though lots of leather in this country is imported from areas where regulations aren't as strict as in the UK - the only way is to chose British products as far as labelling permits you. Yes I'm anti- fox hunting yet I don't think the animal welfare issues are anywhere near as bad as in China's fur and meat trade. It might surprise you to know that I believe banning fur farms in the UK was the wrong thing to do - at least the animals would have lived and died under some sort of regulation - instead we continue to import fur from China and have simply magnified the cruelty involved god knows how many fold. (much of which comes from cat and dog - however species has nothing to do with it as not even the smallest creature should have to suffer what is shown in the above video). However the difference in degree still doesn't make hunting right. I would have to have significant proof that no other method is more humane to make me agree with it, and given that the alternatives are available which cause no suffering whatsoever, makes that change of heart unlikely.
wiliam offord, Thursday, 23 April 2009
birthright and brutality so suit fox hunting. how many people go on day " oh i wonder what fox hunting is like. ur either born or married into it simple as all those who said brutality thaks for your city opnion
Dan, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Also, where on Earth did they get that picture? Not out hunting, that's for sure. I have hunted all my life, and have never seen that many red coats together in one field.
Dan, Thursday, 23 April 2009
How about a debate on wearing fur? Because I bet all these anti's are against fur, but it could easily help reduce the consumption of oil.
Waz, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Why does no one question halal slaughter....traditions that have been brought to our country by others yet traditions that have been in this country for hundreds of years are banned? Because it would be polliticaly incorrect of course!! Just like people who shout about wearing fur whilst wearing leather shoes and munching on there big mac....hipocrites!!!
John, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I think this poll shows the strength of the countryside community, of which hunting supports throughout the season and even throughout the year..it was only through a contact that i knew about the poll and think that my voice should be heard! To advertise this in london underground makes this poll very bias..but still as it stands 82% have voted birthright!
Gash, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Why should we change a 1000 year tradition just casue a suit in an office or a veggan / veggie munchim gimp thinks hunting is cruel................. Our ancerstors hunted to survive we hunt to control vermin and sustain the hunting tradition nothing cruel about the debate each to there own. And as for the nuggets who thinks foxes dont take lambs get a grip of yourself they eat domestic cats and dogs as well given half the chance..................... Summary : W
Dan, Thursday, 23 April 2009
"nothing better to do with their lives than abuse animals and brutalise themselves and their children"
Where are you coming from? Especially with the brutalising their children comment, whilst many children in towns are running round in gangs, doped up and fighting each other hunting children are taught respect, manners, the importance of dressing smartly and are given a strong work ethic.
And, @Kris
I live at a hunt kennels, my father is the huntsman, and what do you expect? Hounds (not dogs, dogs are domesticated pets, hounds are a pack animal and are living in a state as close to their natural one as is possible in the modern age) eat raw meat because THAT IS WHAT THEY NATURALLY DO! When have you ever seen a wolf in the wild kill an animal, start a fire, make a spit and cook his food? And so what the hounds are fed from meat that is hanging, we don't do that here because it wouldn't be possible in our kennels, but if it is possible and more efficient why not? Hunt staff have massive work loads and work under the kind of pressure I expect you will never understand. And the fact that they allowed you into the kennels even thought they knew you were anti, does that not show how much mroe accepting hunting people are than the narrow minded, naive anti-hunting lobby?
bobby, Thursday, 23 April 2009
the hunting law is so mixed up they can not understand it them selfs so scrap it
and leave us alone
thanks bobby
Kris, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Sorry I hit the wrong button - I'm on the winkers comments - mustn't make that mistake again must I! Have any of you been to a hunt kennels and seen the meat hooks for the dogs - nice tasy lamb, beef and pork hanging there while the dogs eat it raw as it hangs. Don't deny it there's photos of it and I've been taken round these places by huntsmen - who knew I was anti - what people! What nasty little games you play when you go out hunting
Christine, Thursday, 23 April 2009
if it is considered that sadism is a birthright or it is inbreeding then I suppose there is a case, but I don't happen to think so. That people who have nothing better to do with their lives than abuse animals and brutalise themselves and their children, smacks of the worst decadence that even came out of the Roman Empire. That anybody with an ounce of self esteem would want to be attached to such a tyranny is beyond most right-thinking people.
Greg, Thursday, 23 April 2009
In the past couple of weeks the foxes have taken several lambs in the two fields infront of my house. Four have been trapped but the farmer came out the other day to see a fox draging a lamb out of the field! Stupid law needs to go!
Vote, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Well the percentage above says it all,and yes im a hunter! Ban the ban!
david bailey, Thursday, 23 April 2009
one of the best days of my life following hounds im no toff just a working man ill take my grand child with me as long as i live
foxy joe, Thursday, 23 April 2009
the foxes would be better with the ban back in force
bollics, Thursday, 23 April 2009
ban the ban
tracy, Thursday, 23 April 2009
@maggie if you read beths post she was the one that wanted us to die of exhaustion and be ripped apart and getting closer only retaliated to that.
Mandamaid, Thursday, 23 April 2009
The 2 words - brutality...birthright - seem couched in a way that only 1 side of an argument is sought: hardly a consensus,or an attempt at an even-handed debate. I'd love to know who instigated the question, and why the question is being put to users of the tube in London. Perhaps, to balance the scales, a better choice might have been brutality v. management of the countryside (the latter argument is well recognised but conveniently discounted in the metropolis).
The use of "birthright" in today's world is laughable and smacks of serfs cowering beneath the thumb of a feudal overlord: it displays an immensely cloistered and ill-informed view of 2009. Times have changed and people are (and should be) accepted for what they are rather than who they are. But...any moment now I'll be told my landlord operates a policy of droit de seigneur.
.
Mandamaid, Thursday, 23 April 2009
The 2 words - brutality...birthright - seem couched in a way that only 1 side of an argument is sought: hardly a consensus,or an attempt at an even-handed debate. I'd love to know who instigated the question, and why the question is being put to users of the tube in London. Perhaps, to balance the scales, a better choice might have been brutality v. management of the countryside (the latter argument is well recognised but conveniently discounted in the metropolis).
The use of "birthright" in today's world is laughable and smacks of serfs cowering beneath the thumb of a feudal overlord: it displays an immensely cloistered and ill-informed view of 2009. Times have changed and people are (and should be) accepted for what they are rather than who they are. But...any moment now I'll be told my landlord operates a policy of droit de seigneur.
.
Maggie, Thursday, 23 April 2009
As for free range being cruelty free anyway - I'm sure everyone is aware that free range chickens go through the same slaughter process and transport as battery, and that chicks bred for egg laying are sorted in exactly the same way as battery chicks with the male chicks being put into a big blender alive because they are surplus to requirements. Indeed there was some research discussed on Countryfile last week that suggests free range chickens are under just as much stress as their battery counterparts in enriched cages, and I guess if evil Mr Foxy Loxy is really as bad as you say and your coups are as shonky as they appear to be - then the hens have got an extra stressor to put up with, haven't they?
Maggie, Thursday, 23 April 2009
As for the whole free range chicken thread - well like I've said before - individuals get fox proof! Yep it does exist - amazing world of modern science and design, and as a wholescale operation fox losses make absolutely no economic difference anyway. While I commend free range farming, I cannot see how you can swap the suffering of one species for another - it's just self-defeatist, the whole point of free ranging is then dismantled. As for increasing free range to the point that all our egg and chicken production occurs this way - well if you are going to produce enough to feed the nation you would a) have to turn over virtually every last square inch of land to free range chicken farming - which would mean no other meat, no crops, no vegetables, no fruit and no biofuels - also no areas of ecological interest. Or you could go for the option that I'm sure most hunters would be able to grab some jollies out of and go for a cull of 30 million human beings to reduce the need! Free range is a nice idea in theory but would only ever work wholesale in the cases laid out above.
Maggie, Thursday, 23 April 2009
So very nice to see the pros once again directing their vitriol towards humans- so Getting Closer wants Beth to be knifed and has expressed the belief that it will inevitably be an immigrant who does this or a young person!. please pros - instead of trying to box yourself into a world that existed a couple of centuries ago, step into the new world - it really is quite nice and enlightening once you get here! You'll learn that not every person in an ethnic minority is about to do you in and rob you of 'your' country (may I remind you built mainly from the sweat and toil of the ancestors of those ethnic minorities), and neither is every youngster. You see not everybody in the country enjoys hurting other living creatures.
andrew, Thursday, 23 April 2009
foxes are worse off since hunting was banned! Bring it back
Sue, Thursday, 23 April 2009
This is like most things - you need the facts before you can vote. Ensure you know the reasons why before you object to things that are not fully understood. If you have seen a sheep with its stomach ripped out or a chicken running around without its head with othes lying around and only one taken for food - how would you react especially when this is part of your livelyhood !!
Ol, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Foxes are vermin and must be controlled or eliminated. Last summer I lost all my free range laying chickens to foxes. So that put me out of business in eggs. Its not worth starting again. Hunting is a legimite activity and it is only misguided folk who probably know nothing about the country side who try to ban it. It's the most humane way to dispatch a fox.
ashley, Thursday, 23 April 2009
and yes you getting closer idiot knows everything about it right ? whatever , hope someone shoots you by mistake while you hunting , good luck
flower, Thursday, 23 April 2009
yes , animal populations can be controlled without causing suffering so why do we hunt and cause suffering ? silly stuff
Getting closer, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Ashley
your full of S**T pet most of the anti population havent a clue so i think they have no rite to vote!
ashley, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I totally agree with beth actually, there are more humane ways to control animal populations
Getting closer, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Beth
Your off your rocker and i hope your the next knife victim to an imagrint or youth on the streets for no reason at all if you dont know your country life dont diss it, all the meet you get is raised and what for to be killed and eaten at least we are hunting wild pests and controlling the numbers across the country! We have a right to hunt Rats and Rabbits they are pritty harmless what 100 rats do in a day a fox will do twice the damage in 30 mins!
Ashleigh, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I chose birthright. Although the picture is very misleading as this is not a pictures taken whilst hunting. This is merely a scene from a show!
Mike Bilbo, Thursday, 23 April 2009
This is an efficient means of pest control contrary to some peoples belief. Others would prefer the predators go completely unchecked in their populations and destroy huge numbers of livestock and I guess would rather they be subjected to poision and die a slow miserable death while their insides hemorage out of control or be shot with a 12 bore and suffer up in some hedgerow waiting to die that way. City dwellers enjoy their fine woolen garmets but have no idea what the farming community must go through to provide for them. Get rid of the ban and get back to sensible hunts. It is good for the economy as well.
Griff Griffiths, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I have never in my life been fox hunting nor can I ever see the time when I will but will defend the right of those that want to.
beth c, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I think each sentient being has a birth right to be respected by the next , and since humans are superior animals we should try and help the not so evolved species not take advantage of them which is what hunting is. We do not need it for survival we do it because we enjoy it even if we cause suffering.
So to all of you hunters I hope you get hunted down and die of exhaustion or get ripped apart and be ok with it because its someones birth right ...
Seriously lets be humane , arent you ashamed of yourselves for causing all this suffering ? discusting
tommy, Thursday, 23 April 2009
im for,
earthdog, Thursday, 23 April 2009
why do we still have this issue, and why have we still got a draconian govenment, itsnot a hobby, its a way of life.
Tony Blair, Thursday, 23 April 2009
The ban should be banned let the country men/women keep there lifes because without hunting its destroyed!
steve s, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Does hunting cause suffering to foxes? If you believe it does then surely you also believe that halal slaughtering practises are cruel and barbaric. Consider why the animal rights movement have nothing to say about cruelty inflicted daily in the name of religion and everything to say about a longstanding tradition of this country.
I challenge anyone to go hunting, whether it be foxes or any other type of vermin, using traditional methods of control and see for yourself if there is any uneccesary suffering.
WAKE UP and see that the british people are taking second place to johnny come latelys that are in some instances still breaking in thier first pair of shoes!
ban the ban, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Lets fight to get the ban lifted
GC, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Neither. This is a typically unhelpful question. Personally i'm all for hunting, which is not cruel and is a legitimate activity.
Dorothy Collins, Thursday, 23 April 2009
foxesdo have tobe culled and the only sure way of not leaving a wounded fox is hunting. Natural and instantaneous.
Not too far away, Thursday, 23 April 2009
G
Answer is no! Read it or dont i realy couldn't care less.
Not too far away, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Heres an example of the country we live in,i no longer drink in the local town full of knife crime,drugs,murderers,alot of kiddy fiddlers and gangs of youths! One night i was jumped by 16 youths wearing hooded tops ive a scare from my eye all they way down to my neck from a bottle which was smashed over me more than once now i had to have plastic surgery and the police never followed up the case yet they know nearly all the youths,i got £550 pounds compensation and left with a scare for life and not one of the youths went to jail they said the drugs they took angered them,i did not ask or confront these people it just happend for nothing,justify that???
Was lamping about two months ago on permission clearing away Rabbits which were destroying crops etc and on my way back to the car a police maverick turned up stopped me and the WOW i nearly fainted this is at 1am in morning and another 4 cars and two riot vans block me in that was over 14 officers there now how many other people fell prey to the youths etc when 14 officers come for one man and his dog enjoying a run out! Many people its just disgraceful!
B, Thursday, 23 April 2009
How many times are you going to post that?
george n harby, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Democracy is two chickens and a fox arguing about lunch. Ask the fox !
G, Thursday, 23 April 2009
@Not too far way Is there any chance of you using some punctuation so that the rest of us can actually understand you?
Not too far away, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Well what can you say ive been hunting all my life and im young and foxes need to be controlled,the damage they do to lambs, and chicken who cant fight back.So we step in too keep things under controll and like you lot thats never even seen the damage ill keep hunting regardless within the law or not and if a get caught doing anything wrong because im sure they will find something to pin on us ill stand in court and ask my charge to be reduced to MURDER! Our country has gone that low and the ban should be banned! What we should be doing as a country is lifting the ban carry on with country life and get all the rapists,kiddy fiddlers,druggys,murderers,prostitutes,imagrints etc etc etc off the streets you decide the fox or your child or family member to knife crime or drugs etc all you lowlife against us country hunter i hope you feel lonely and one day fall prey to one of the druggys drink drivers blar blar blar on our streets!
george n harby, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Democracy is two chickens and a fox arguing about lunch. Ask the fox !
A Fox, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Fox numbers need to be controlled due to the destruction of livestock/gamebirds. Since the ban came in I have recieved more requests for foxes to be controlled. The remaining methods of control are the more efficient ones. The ban is likely to reduce the number of foxes and as such your ban has had a negative effect on the fox population!
Since it is now illeagal to use dogs to control foxes in a way where, lets face it the fox has a reasonable chance of escape. I now either squeek them in then shoot them or just block up the holes and turn the ignition, when this is done nothing survies.
woody, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I live in a village and the amount of livestock that is lost to fox is very large . A friend in the village lost a cat sometime ago and it was found in a fox set not to far from were she live , so its not just farm livestock thats taken .also your cuddlie cat !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Garypco west wales, Thursday, 23 April 2009
our right as country men are being taken away from us day by day.....its fine to watch a dvd or go to the cinemas to see people being raped tortured and murdered...yet the country way of life that kees children busy in theyre spare time and keeps them off the street away from crime and drugs seems a good thing.... halal slaughter and kosher meat is another ok thing to do as its in the name of religion...its fine to slit the throat of a breathing animal and drain it of its life in around three to five muinets yet a 70lb dog is not allowed to kill a 14lb fox wich is killed almost instantly...in a circumstance that allows its adrenaline to flow where it feels little pain...
this govermant and the way some of the uneducated muppets who know nothing of how life and the country works need to stay with what they know leave the country ways to be managed by the country people themselves weve managed for long enough so i imagine we can continue!!! nothing and i mean NOTHING will stop us hunting and living OUR way of life!!!!
Freddie, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I have lost 5 free range Nolfolk Bronze turkeys, 2 hens and 3 lambs in the last 6 months alone to a fox, that is 700 - 800 pounds to me. Why can't they eat rabbits, there are more than enough of these and leave my livestock alone. They need to be culled 365 days a year.
Foxgun Tom, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I voted birthright, yet I'm a townie by birth!! being born in the east end of Glasgow over 50 years ago. I moved as a child to the countryside at the age of 8 years and grew up in a rural environment but still have extremly close links my urban roots.
I've been involved in many rural pursuits over the years, ferreting, lurcher/terrier work, falconry/hawking and I've been hunting with dogs since the age of 8/9 years, Hunting with dogs is perceived as cruel by the urbanites because of a lack of their knowledge on the subject and well prepared anti hunt campaigns by animal right groups? As soon as a city dweller has a problem with rats the first thing they do is contact their local environmental officer who sends someone along with traps and poisen, both of which can cause suffering, why is this morally acceptable? Why when there is an insect infestation no emotion is shown and every chemical means is used to eradicate the offenders again we find this acceptable and yet when you get a pack of dogs pursuing a fox and a lead hound kills a fox instantly there's uproar?. Most of the ill informed take offence at the breaking up at a fox (when the rest of the pack intervene) before this happens the fox is allready dead, you can't be cruel or cause suffering to a corpse!! I was instrumental in drawing up the code of practice for shooting fox's while hunting with hounds here in Scotland, and I can tell you categorically more fox's are killed now!! and many more must, ultimately end up wounded/injured due to gunshot wounds. At least when it was just hunting with hounds the fox was caught and killed instantly or escaped, (survival of the fittest) I take no pleasure in killing any animal, I do it to provide a natural food scource for me and my family. I also carry out pest control for farmers who suffer financial loss due to fox predation a knock on effect of that, could be higher food prices for the consumer (then see what public reaction is?). Hunting with dogs is environmentally friendly, totally natural as its practiced by many different species wild hunting dogs throughout the world
Tom Chalmers (aka) Foxgun Tom
d sykes, Thursday, 23 April 2009
the fox is only a type of vermin and hunting is a form of pest control .if the galloped around in red coats huning rats who would bother
Will Jim, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Jayne
I live in west Wales on a farm, and I enjoy hunting. The local hunt in this area has seen evidence of foxes which have been released in to the wild. This includes foxes which have been castrated, and lately we have caught foxes which have their glads removed from under their tails, so that the hounds can not follow their scent. We have even shot one fox with a dog's collar on it!!!
charlotte, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Can i just point out that foxes are not classed as vermin , they actually control vermin! No need to add more i agree with drew and maggie
VH, Thursday, 23 April 2009
My answer is "neither" - it's not a birthright because considerable responsibilities come with the practice of hunting - and if you don't embrace those, you do not have the right to hunt; nor do I think it is brutal, given the way nature behaves across all the upper layers of the food pyramid. I have hunted many times and would happily do so again, with a responsible hunt.
David, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I defend the right of these people to live the way they wish for the same reason that I would defend the right of people to hunt.
What I won't put up with is them trying to impose their values on the rest of the society, the benefits of which they are reaping whilst attacking the traditions that have in part formed the very society that they are railing against. They are like spoiled children who are only able to exist because the society and culture that has fed and clothed them tolerates their temper tantrums.
Why is it that seemingly large proportions of the great unwashed who actively protest against these things are among the least productive members of our society? Yet put most of them in a situation where they had to survive without a supermarket and most would starve. *shrugs* I guess it's a symptom of a free society so the necessity of tolerating the illogical has to be a good thing.
Gill, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Hunting is my birthright, so leave me alone to enjoy it, BAN THE BAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Marcus, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Drew,
I can see from your comments that you want every animal in the countryside killed to prevent the waste of precious water, do you wear leather? use butter, milk and eggs? would you see an end to organic farming using farm yard manure and more chemicals being used instead? I think the argument has moved away from the hunting issue here. I accept you may have a different opinion and I respect that even if I do not agree but the British countryside is the way it is because of the excellent work our farmers do, if you really want to get angry with someone try getting angry with Tesco!
reggie, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Having just read all these comments - lets get back to "who put this out?" it is a loaded question. Birthright can be misconstrued.
but of course it's our right - freedom of choice is our right and don't forget this government is gradually whittling away all our rights and the sooner we can get back to traditional values in every sense the better
St George's Day today - come on, stand up and be counted, we signed up to fight this ban and we will see it through for the good of England
and thank you Martin for pointing out the crap photo!
Bonita, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Perhaps if inner city gang members went hunting in the countryside and were encouraged to learn about real hunting, real fishing, real shooting, and the behinds the scenes wellfare and game keeping, they'd be less likely to get their rocks off stabbing some poor innocent person !
I believe that the labour government have wrecked this country during their reign and with that in mind my husband and I are leaving the country because there's nothing now worth staying for!
James, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Pest control is necessary
Hounds are the fastest and most humane way to despatch a fox
Enjoying that process as a sport is a fairly unpleasant thing to do but the legislation behind the hunting ban is long-winded, complex, unconstitutional and ineffective. If this hadn't been banned hunting would have died out gradually under consensus. Now it's had a publicity campaign.
Anti-hunt, anti-ban
Drew, Thursday, 23 April 2009
David,
".........into the animals I care for (and also eat)"
Do you "care for them" when they are hanging upside, terrified (probably suffering from diarrhoea) and about to have their throats cut? Weird thought process.
Ok, of you want to look at omnivorous animals, look at the bear, look at the dog, naturally omnivorous and have long sharp teeth for tearing up flesh. Where are yours ?
What do these hunt people "put in to the countryside"? As meat-eaters like yourself, they are taking out much more from the countryside by being part of an industry where precious water is wasted on feeding animals (990 litres to produce 1KG of beef), where millions of tonnea of antibiotic-laden, hormone-laden, heavy metal-laden, animal faeces is destroying the soil, running into the rivers and the sea, polluting the water and polluting the fish along the way.
Or are you going to tell me they are all vegans !
Will, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Notting Hill - "we believe that carrots have rights" "that Carrot died and you murdered it"
Brilliant!
Sarah, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Birthright
Linegeist - Anglesey, Thursday, 23 April 2009
When I see anti-hunt protesters foregoing the eating of meat, eschewing the murder of flies in their homes and walking barefoot (plastic shoes are out - global warming don'tcha know?) in order to spare helpless animal lives, then I may have a little more patience with their arguments.
Until then foxes remain, in my world at least, murderous and rapacious killers who take thousands of helpless lambs each year, decimate chicken flocks and kill household pets. They often kill far more than they can possibly need to survive - presumably for the sake of killing.
Hunting foxes is a centuries-old tradition that has been part of the British countryside since men first rode horses over here. It's a tradition that kind've deserves better than ritual sacrifice on the altar of political correctness or to serve a politically motivated agenda.
denny mclaugh, Thursday, 23 April 2009
born into hunting and will keep on doing what i was born into
Jonathan Cape Town, Thursday, 23 April 2009
This is not the appropriate question in terms of addressing this issue. Hunting has played an intrinsic role in the evolution on the human species. It continues to contribute to conservation and the right to unt, within responsible paramaters should be protected.
John B, Thursday, 23 April 2009
It's my birthright
Nick Burton, Thursday, 23 April 2009
This is England, a land of tradition and freedom.
David, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Drew, as someone who grows their own meat as well as hunting small game for food I manage perfectly well without injecting things into the animals I care for (and also eat).
Apologies... I have incisors, and canines, and molars in my mouth. I understood that incisors and canines are for doing the cutting and ripping work while the molars are what I use for chewing with. If you're going to be a pedant at least get it right.
I have three types of teeth because evolution has dictated that I am an omnivore - not a herbivore. The animals you've quoted physiology on are not designed by nature to eat vegetables. I am... and I like some vegetables when I tuck into a rabbit stew or nice bit of lamb, thank you very much.
I don't hunt foxes from horseback, but I've shot one or two in my time. I would defend the right of those who hunt to enjoy their sport, as they put far more into the countryside than you ever will.
Barrie, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Birthright most definitely !
Maggie you ask.....
"Where is your visual proof that foxes kill lambs?" and state that.... " I've not seen any to date". You then go on to draw all sorts of conclusions from from your own lack of awareness and knowledge.
THE TRUTH IS:
Maybe you've not looked hard enough, or in the right place (you'll certainly not find it in any RSPCA leaflets). However if you really would like to see some "visual proof", maybe you'd care to visit the National Working Terrier Federation's website (links aren't permitted on here) and click on the pest control section. It may enable you to revise some of your ideas and conclusions. But I won't hold my breath.
Jayne you state that.....
"Well now..... the RSPCA have been collecting foxes made ill by the fact that they are mainly living on the rubbish and detritus in towns and cities, and dumping them in "safe release" areas which they have identified as being the foxes natural habitat. "
That is what's called an 'urban myth'- the RSPCA have never actually done this at all. In fact, this is a direct quote from their website
"Additionally, moving foxes from one area to another is not appropriate and not considered humane."
THE TRUTH IS:
Whilst that may be the RSPCA's current stance they've not only released foxes, but have also published letters in the press requesting suitable sites. It's not an urban myth, simply a well documented fact.
The reason for the RSPCA's present stance may well be due to the fact that the practice was both cruel and of questionable legailty. Nevertheless it is a fact and definitely NOT fiction.
Andy, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I am an animal lover too! However I do recognise the need for vermin control. Hunting is part of British Heritage. I would welcome it's return.
John McCracken, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I am an animal lover and I don't even agree with horse or dog racing so making a choice here was a no brainer.
Drew, Thursday, 23 April 2009
David, I pity you.
Let me tell you a few things to stop you from humiliating yourself in the future :
1) The incisors in my mouth and your mouth ARE for chewing raw vegetables. Carnivorous animals do not chew meat, they break it down into small pieces and swallow it.
2) Every hunting animal's mouth (lion, alligator etc.) is proportionately larger to it's head than any herbivorous animal (cow, horse, human, YES human)
3) All hunting animals have short intestines as the meat goes rapidly through the system. Humans have yards of intestines and small pieces of meat nestle in the folds. Why do you suppose people have colonic irrigation ?
You go and enjoy your hormone, antibiotic, adrenaline filled piece of decomposing flesh. Save a place for me in heaven !
Born Again, Thursday, 23 April 2009
I'm always amazed how seemingly intelligent people are suckered by this "ripped to pieces" sensationalist argument. How would you control them ? Shoot them and make no distinction betwen the young and healthy or old and infirm ? Poison them and risk other animals ?
Next time you enjoy your free-range chicken, organic lamb, pheasant, fresh wild rabbit or barn-laid eggs think about fox control in the UK. Or would you rather shift the problem to another country and ship your meat halfway around the world on fossil fuels ?
Get real people, animals have to die for us to eat meat - it's always been that way and always will be - and this includes predator control.
PS, before you ask, I don't hunt foxes - no need for me because I grow fruit trees instead.
Chris, Thursday, 23 April 2009
Why does status justify killing a fox? How does that proove nobilitiy? If pest control is the issue then their are less violent ways to prevent foxes killing live stock.
Are there any facts tp proove that fox hunting controls fox populations?
Drew, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Can I just point out that us "townies" do not have to come from the countryside to understand barbarism. It doesn't matter if it's in a field or in an a council estate, suffering for no reason can never be justified, human or animal.
The reasons given are laughable : Pest Control : oh how considerate of these blood-junkies to free up their saturdays, highly commendable.
Does all that weird 'smearing blood on the face' stuff still go on at the evening dinner? Bizarre !
David, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Jayne.... they may not put that in their propaganda which you refer to. I'm merely talking about the reality that happens. The reality that I observe. The reality that I live with. The reality that local farmers have asked me to put the poor starving foxes out of their misery.
Are you claiming that the RSPCA are taking animals made sick by their lifestyle, caring for them into health, and then putting them back into the environment that ruined their health in the first place?
I'm talking reality here girl... not propaganda pumped out at the ignorant by the ignorant.
Drew Davidson, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Have you seen the mess a fox makes of new born lambs or pheasant pens and also the damage rabbits do to crops ?
David, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Drew, you may not be a hypocrite like tha vast majority of anti hunting and animal liberationists. What you -are- is someone advocating that their way of life is superior and should be followed.
Do you have incisors in your mouth? Perhaps you could elucidate what reason evolution has put them there for? I strongly suspect that it isn't for chewing vegetation.
Perhaps you could even tell us why the appendix is a redundant organ in our bodies.
I will not become a vegan for a number of reasons. I eat well but rely on work and exercise to keep my body healthy, rather than poor diet. My body is evolved through thousands of years to eat meat. My eyes are positioned in the front of my head to give me binocular vision which is superior for a predator on a land based scenario.
These are just idle thoughts as I drink grain products, having supped on a rather delectable piece of rare steak this evening.
Jayne, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
"Well now..... the RSPCA have been collecting foxes made ill by the fact that they are mainly living on the rubbish and detritus in towns and cities, and dumping them in "safe release" areas which they have identified as being the foxes natural habitat. "
That is what's called an 'urban myth'- the RSPCA have never actually done this at all. In fact, this is a direct quote from their website
"Additionally, moving foxes from one area to another is not appropriate and not considered humane."
Try actually getting your facts right before shooting your mouth off David. It makes me laugh that so many pro hunters refer to those who do not support it as 'townies' who do not understand the countryside. Just another weak argument by people who cannot even be bothered to do the most basic research on the subject.
Reynard, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
@ Red In Tooth And Claw - "Must be something in it since they survive cruel winters and road death."
Please explain how the humble vulpes vulpes manages to survive road deaths. Is it something to do with the popular concept of reincarnation, are they invulnerable to speeding vehicles, or do they, upon vehicular impact, perhaps ascend to a higher plane of existence?
Must dash, the tofu's almost ruined and I have a full bushel of lentils to knit before bedtime.
Toodle-pip, old chap.
David, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Well now..... the RSPCA have been collecting foxes made ill by the fact that they are mainly living on the rubbish and detritus in towns and cities, and dumping them in "safe release" areas which they have identified as being the foxes natural habitat.
Regretfully these foxes were starving now, and as they had been reared in urban environments they never learned to hunt anything more mobile than a bin bag. So rather than hunt rabbits they go for lambs as these are in a controlled environment and can't get away.
Luckily the RSPCA release area is in an area where I have shooting permission and a few grains of .223 puts them out of the misery that the anti-hunting lobby and RSPCA bleeding hearts brigade have placed them in.
Karen, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Talk about propaganda!!! Where did they take their photo? Not on any hunting field I've ever been in, looks like a nice day at Hickstead. Lets be a least authentic if we intend to have serious debate.
Maggie, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Drew - Charlotte I completely agree. In an age where we can send men into space and take pictures of people in their gardens from a satellite orbiting the earth, build bomb proof vehicles and maximum security prisons where we can contain humans who have far bigger brains than foxes, but yet no - they still insist it's impossible to build a fox proof pen! Amazing the shit that gets trotted out, or maybe some farmers really are living a couple of centuries back. If I can do it - Charlotte can do it, one of my hill farming mates can do it then guess what .....................drum roll please and wait for the gasps of astonishment .................................it can be done! Just takes a bit of hard work and thought.
charlotte, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Tottaly agree drew, \i have lambs/ chikens, and have lost none to foxes,Get your fencing sorted!! Foxes keep the rodent population down on my land, they do more good than harm, and mange is a very easy thing to cure by the way, my dog had it took a few drops of stronghold and it went! Live stock is only suffering because people let it!
Drew, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
All these people talking about foxes getting through fences to kill chickens, get better and more secure fences. What are these foxes carrying : Boltcutters ?!
charlotte, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
well mtcguy apparently it is ok to break the law so i will carry on!
Matthew, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
All hunts in the UK run because it is part of a tradition and livelyhood for many people. The next thing groups such as LACS will want to ban is all hunting even falconry because it is unfair control of rabbits. The only reason hunts work is to control the numbers and keep a healthy population. If the hunts didnt carry on then groups such as wildlife aid at leatherhead would be over run by foxes with mange and road injuries.
Phil, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Peter - quite agree with your comment.
The word Birthright is wrong - most of the rural community would probably use the word necessity.
Foxhunting has been carreid out for hundreds of years by farmers, young riders, old riders and all manner of folk. The Lord and Ladie image is and has always been a bit of a myth and hype for the event
The fox population is growing rapidly, partly due to the lack of hunting. As a result farmers and livestock keepers are suffering on the small and large scale.
Hunting should be reinstated before this problem gets out of control.
Clifftop, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
I live on the Merseyside and Cheshire border, I'm a city boy but my heart is in the country.
We should respect the needs and traditions of farmers and country dwellers. Farmers are the providers of our country. Despite the huge Hypermarket companies dictating prices to the farmers, we need to support the farmers; support them and learn from them. When (not IF) this country implodes on itself, we will look to them for our survival.
Red In Tooth And Claw, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
My Dad hunted and farmed all his life and he used to doff his cap whenever he saw a fox. He said they are far more clever than humans. Must be something in it since they survive cruel winters and road death.
It is only man that causes them problems not by hunting them but by not hunting them extraordinarily enough.
Peter, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
As a fox-hunter , I certainly will not vote "brutality" , however "birthright" is not the right question.
This question and photo in itself imply a certain misunderstanding about hunting.
The word "Birthright" suggests a class distinction , giving the right for members of "old" hunting families to continue in the hunting tradition. The reality is that the majority of people who hunt are not born into hunting familes, but take it up as an equine activity.
Secondly , the photo looks like a group of showjumpers, it would appear that the photo was chosen because of the red jackets being seen as the typical impression of hunting. I feel that this photo fortifies the general wrong impression of hunting being done by a bunch of rich snobs in red jackets, which the word "birthright" implies..
.
Foxhuntingalltheway, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Fox hunting is GOOD!!! Foxes are just annoying, especially if you find them in your garden or eating your chickens or game. This ban just means that the nummber of foxes will continue to rise, but foxhunting helps keep that number stable and low!!
Robin, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
The fairest way of controling the fox as he is either free to run again or caught. Yet again the way this comment is put the argument is about class and not the hounds, wish the folk paying for these adverts would look at it objectivly and not by class as hunting folk are from many different back grounds and folow hounds for many different reasons.
Little Lawyer, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
The point is everyone should have their own choice. If you don't want to go hunting, than you don't have to. But if you want to go, then that should be allowed. We all have hunting in us or we wouldn't be here.
Some lady said hounds are forced to hunt and get starved before a hunt. hahahah...thump...sorry, just fell off my chair. Believe me love, those hounds hunt foxes because it is exactly, 100%, what they want to do! That is why it is so impressive! You obviously haven't ever been hunting then. At a meet hound's sterns (tails) hardy stop wagging, surely you see that means they are very happy chappies.
As for starving, what a load of balls. They are supreme athletes. They run miles in a day and then are feed when they are home. They eat well and are hungry after the exercise. Much like a marathon runner coming in and having a sports drink and making some food after a race. Only, hounds prefer raw cow...
Dunk, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
It is not about arguing between one another it is about the divide between country life and city life experiences and educating each other. Though research of speaking with people i have found that some country people would like to see that mechanisms in farming are changed back to the ways they were so that extensive farming of chickens for large scale consumption (cities) are replaced and the food source has a more humane life than being fast grown and not see the light of day!!
Having lost 5 lambs to foxes in one night i can see the benefit of hunting. I dont believe the fox should be dug out and do believe it should be hunted and then shot humanely. the hunting environment is a pastime such as shooting and when dont correctly benefits the countryside as a whole. it brings valuable income and employment and ensures that britain does have some form of national identity.
Ultimately there are many views in the topic but the choice in participation should reside with the land owners, riders, dog handlers and people that know about what they are talking about whilst trying to be sensitive to the feelings that those that dont.
Drew, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
We are in such a messed-up world. Not only is it WRONG to hunt foxes, it is also WRONG to be sitting on the horse's back in the first place !
It's about rights. The foxe's right to NOT to be chased and torn apart and the horse's right to NOT have someone sitting on it's back whether it can physically take it or not.
By the way, I am not a hypocrite, I am a vegan which is what we all need to be to stop environmental destruction, world hunger and early mortality.
Louise, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
I have no problem with hunting, when my husband has just lost 16 lambs to the fox.
Jason Potts, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
If you like a day at the hunt, or hunting is your livelyhood, then enjoy it.
If you're against hunting, then simply don't do it, and keep away?
What's the problem?
PR, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Way too narrow a view - there's much more to hunting than foxes! It's hunting in general that's EVERYONES birthright.
NGF, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Proved by the Government's own Burns Report NOT TO BE CRUEL.
223rem, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
we live very far north on a croft surrounded by farmland, forest and peat bog.
we only occasionaly see afox trotting across the neighboring field and i have once seen a cub in the field with an inoccent fluffy adorable iccle baby wabbit in its mouth.
conversly our neighbour has had frequent fox trouble resulting in hen loss. we put this down to the smell of our two great danes.
there is no such thing as fox proof anything, the farmers who are lucky enough not to have trouble do so because of mitigating factors, dogs, poor hygiene, a low population in the area etc.
you must never tar other farmers as uncaring when you are merely lucky.
MAGGIE, with reference to yours and toms discussion. there is a BASC deer dogs course and i personaly know a dog trainer who trains dogs for stalking and post stalk tracking. i even own his book. we are less likely to need them though because the majority of uk stalkers (poacher excluded) have greater disaplin when it comes to taking a shot plus we dont take shots at running animals.
jamie donnellan, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
this is a load of crap.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you people need to experience a hunt before you can even begin to say anything!!!!!!!!!! give your heads a wobble and thing about it!!!!!! not alll hunting is on horse back. think of a foot pack before all you townies start saying its for posh snobs. i run with a pack of hounds and i am as common as anything. BRING BACK HUNTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AL, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
I am strongly Pro hunting and very strongly for animal welfare.
If it wasn't for hunting we would have no countryside. It is a vital part of the intricate ecological web which keeps vermin in check and ensures our food supplies. People have become far to detached from coutry life and have some irrational 'fluffy' view of a utopian animal world where all creatures dance around in flowery meadows.
Meat does not grow in polystyrene trays and vegtables do not grow in plastic bags.
The species that can be legally hunted in the UK have been chosen due to their negative impact on the environment. In short, these are species which destroy not only property, but also our wildlife. They damage crops and wild plant life and most import in many cases they carry diseases which can be fatal to many other species and in some cases fatal to us.
Those who think that hunting is evil, please look at your surroundings and seriously gauge your level of countryside knowledge. Ignorance is the number one cause of the anti hunting movement.
Our countryside is not of natural origin. It has been managed and shaped for tens of thousands of years by people who understand it.
If you are not fully engaged with the british countryside 24/7. Working the land and managing the ecology and conservation. They you have no business inflicting your opinions on those who know what they are talking about.
shame on you for being so ignorant that you will destroy the very thing you are trying to protect.
JNR Bishop, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
I fully endorse all the comments of Mr Nick Onslow who has expressed my own opinions.
Tom, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Got it in one Nick.
reluctant hunter, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
This is what we used to do on the mountains and woods of wales. The local farmers with guns would surround a smalish area of wood or rough ground where we knew foxes would be, and then a pack of hounds were then sent in to flush the fox out.95% of the time the fox would be shot dead when he would run through the lines of guns , running away from the hounds.If sometimes he was unfortunatly wounded the hounds would then be able to track the fox and finnish him off to avoid too much suffering for the fox. Was this an acceptable way of using hounds to hunt? It was an extremely boring day as I could go standing in rain all day and never see anything, but the hunt shot 15ish foxes every year, if half of them where female and had 5 cubs each next year there would be 50 foxes.If next year halve of them had 5 cubs you would then have an extra 125 cubs plus the other 50 making 175 hungry foxes, THEN you would see large lamb losses to mr fox !
Nick Onslow, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
The Hunting Act 2004:
- has done nothing for animal welfare;
- threatens livelihoods in the longer term;
- ignores the findings of Lord Burn's Enquiry;
- gives succour to animal rights extremists;
- is based on political expedience following the Prime Minister's unconsidered response on the television programme Question Time in 1999;
- is framed to persecute a large minority who support a traditional activity;
- does not command popular support in the country except amongst the uninformed and mal-advised.
CJ, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Got no problem with fox hunting as long as it's properly regulated.
The BBC seem to be quite happy to show wildlife programmes featuring lions/tigers/crocks hunting down, killing and eating other animals. I presume they sbroadcast them because the population enjoy watching them. I find it strange that the 'antis' are not demanding the banning of these programmes.
tracy, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
funny never known a hound to hunt a cow as for them being starved before a hunt what a load of rubbish
Maggie, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
ME - they feed them dead livestock (i.e. things they would naturally chase and hunt but have had the instinct beaten out of them), but starve them before a hunt to make them keener to hunt the fox which they have to be taught to do (I.e. beaten if they go for anything else and rewarded if they don't) - sure shows how unnatural it is.
Maggie, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Tom you are welcome. It's nice to have what you do explained in a nice civil way. I really didn't know about the trail finder thing. Wonderful to have your input on a board full of people who constantly tell me that people who shoot are too incompetent to be charged with the issue of killing animals quickly. What you said all makes sense, and I really don't have a problem with it. In fact I would gladly watch you at work.
If all pros were like you I really don't think many people would have a problem.
Unfortunately it's mainly populated by those who like to, stereotype people to make themselves feel better and take cheap shots at people's spelling - Yes Sarah - I know it should be 'choose' - sorry for my typing error -by the way how did you know I wasn't dyslexic? I'm not but I see you were prepared to take the risk of mocking someone with a disability. But then why doesn't that surprise me coming from someone who gets her kicks out of seeing something less advantaged than herself in pain!
I've had pros take the piss out of dyspraxic people, mentally ill people and more recently call someone a 'filthy, despicable, cretinous, lying, piece of pond life' when she was trying to convince me that her concept of how something could be 'vermin' could never be turned upon a human being!
Sarita, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
The world is cruel, get used to it. Thomas More tried to imagine a Utopia and admitted it could never exist. Surely there is more humanity in trying to understand your fellow man and live with him than in trying to argue him into oblivion. There are good and bad arguments for each side of this debate and that will never change. The sensible, mature way forward is to accept that and move on.
ME, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Mtcguy, if thats true how does she feed her dogs? How does the hunt feed its dogs?
jon law, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
only small ones
mtcguy, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Charlotte you are aware that under DEFRA rules you cannot "encourage or feed any and all forms of canine predators within farm or small holding boundaries"
Read your DEFRA guideline leaflet.
ME, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
You eat foxes then Jon?
jON lAW, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Whether this government likes it or not I have the right to choose what and how to spend my time and I choose to hunt to provide food for my family,free of all the chemicals,costs and preservatives the food companies pump into all forms of meat,I also have the right to protect my livestock from maruading predators like foxes,which i do, daily,we all have the right of choice I use mine with no lack of understanding or bigotry against those who choose not to hunt,this is neither a birth right or brutality,but a simple choice,you either choose to hunt or you don't ,simple as,I do hunt and will always hunt.
charlotte, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
I run a farm and i can tell you it is possible to protect live stock from foxes, I have no problem with them at all, In fact I leave food out for them, hunting is disgusting and protecting live stock is a very poor afrgument, as for wildlife management , it can manage its self if left alone by blood thirsty people!
Freda Fox, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
If you people take umbrage at me doing my chicken/duck/lamb fun killing - I only eat sparingly but do enjoy the excitement -I would rather take my chances with a pack of hounds (whom I have managed to lose on every occasion after a jolly nice run so far) than be maimed by a badly aimed shot or left to endure agony in a trap, which is now happening with great frequency all year round to my friends.
Ken, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Part of my job is to cull foxes and other problematic animal. In so I don't really see the difference to me doing it or a bunch of people in red jackets doing it.
What Tom posted above I agree with is correct. Even with a gun its not 100% you will kill anything. At least with dogs the odds are that the fox will be dead outright or have got away.
bez, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Hunting is in most peoples blood even if they dont want to admit it, even those hunt sabatours who planned their actions against a hunt and carrying out their plans were infact using their hunting instinct, I have hunted and pest contolled for 25+ years and no small minded individual with no actual grasp of whats going on in the countryside is going to stop me, F*ck the ban
Tom, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Maggie....Thank you for your comments. Indeed practice, practice and more practice is the order of the day when anyone considers shooting game. Accuracy is paramount and the standard is to hit a 4" target at 100m.. Sounds easy but when the adrenaline is pumping you really need to concentrate very hard.
My biggest nightmare is taking a shot and wounding an animal.. then having to find it. I don't know anyone who shoots seriously who wouldn't err on the side of caution and not take the shot if they were not certain of a clean kill. As for using bloodhounds well technology has moved us forward in some respects. We have special filters which fit onto flashlights and enable us to see a blood trail. Fortunately I have never had to use one.
There is a course people can do for stalking deer. Only those with an interest will be aware it covers habitat, deer management, hygiene and, of course, safe shooting.
I have to be able to indentify a deer that is ill or has disease. I have to know what precautions to take if the meat is to enter the food chain - even if it's to be given to friends.. And should I shoot a deer that is diseased then the onus is on the hunter (in this case, me) to pass some of the carrcase on to the Public Health Unit and to bury the rest at least one metre deep..!! We take what we do very seriously.
A given area of land can only support so much wildlife. Too many and they all suffer from insufficient food. Conversely a sheep farmer doesn't want rabbits on his land. Six rabbits eat the same ammount of grass as one sheep.. work it out and you'll soon see the costs to the consumer rise - as they did during the last Foot and Mouth epidemic..
Will, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
In the words of a famous huntsman " if you want my hounds, you will have to shoot me"!
I AGREE!
Will, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
I don't care if tyou don't agree with it. I think it should be aa matter of individual choice. It is not a polictical matter. The labour Government wasted Millions on a ban that does not work. 700 hours of our Parliaments time was wasted on this issue. Perhaps that is why we are in this ecomonic crisis now! I invited my labour MP to kennels twice and he ignored my letters. But apparently his expenses breackdown shows he spends £14,000 on correspondence! Well he didn't write back to me. It is this unwillingness to look at the hunting issue and be open to ideas that annoys hunts people. We are a minority and should be protected, not attacked. For me it is about the hounds, they deserve the best and get the best life. Long exercises every day, to hunt as a pack, fresh meat every day and 24 hour care. The ban risks hunting and so risks the hounds - that is not aacceptable. Repeal the act now!
Sarah, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Oh Maggie, if only you knew how brilliant your past tense use of the word "chose" is. Hilarious.
Will, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
I have alway loved hunting. Since I was a very small lad in my village I found it very mysterious. I loved the hounds and the big horses. I loved the colours and language. I wanted to be part of it. I went along and was encouraged to follow but I didn't have a pony. The Master said I should run; and I did. I became fitter and quicker and stronger. I would go to kennels and watch the huge amount of work that it takes to look after 50 hounds. When the ban came in I felt more anger than ever before. This was now my life and I would fight for it. Why should I not go hunting? It should be my choice. I now lay the trail, but I would give anything to have real hunting back! Long live the Hunt!!
Tinkerbelle, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Backs against the wall and fight, isn’t that what being English is all about!
It would not be for me to request a ban on football for instance, a recreational sport that I know nothing about. I may indeed have opinions on the Hillsborough Disaster and the pointless lives lost due to hooligans pushing their way over people to view a sport that to my mind doesn’t achieve anything. But unfortunately whilst the declining number of us that go out to work to earn a living to pay for ‘Mr on the dole hooligan’ are hard at work at our desks earning money to pay for him, his Mrs and the 9 children, he is sat on the internet voting against the only sport I enjoy and the only sport I can afford to enjoy after I have paid for him and his internet connection! This has all happen because back in 1997 a few foolish individuals questioned the only party that is capable of running Britain and decided to vote bleeding Labour. Role on the election!
tracy, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
welcome home bev keep up the good work shame you can't take a few antis with you next time
jimbo, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
we lamb indoors here and turn the ewes and lambs out and loose few to foxes, although i have seen foxes after the lambs on one occasion this season and i intend to go out and shoot it, hence doing something about it (whoever posted that about why not do something). I think hunting for food is a birthright, shoot most things you can eat (and some like foxes and rats that you cant) as far as foxhunting goes i feel this is the wrong question to be asking, I quite enjoy beagling, fox hunting, fishing and shooting and feel by far the crulest is fishing from the list but few peole complain about that!!!!
I do find the debate on both sides highly comical, the level of idiocy on both sides is great!!!
Stephen W McCullough, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
All these nay sayers should devote their considerable energies to combatting paedophilia or people trafficking or some such cause and leave decent country people alone, the people involved in country pursuits understand, care for and respect animals far more than most of these so called activists. Anyone who wishes to engage me on this can email me at stephensmailer@googlemail.com. Thanks
Maggie, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Tom your sentiments are to be commended and if you truly respect the animals that you kill and seek to give them the best death possible then I have absolutely no problem with you - and given the choice I would always chose to be stalked by you and shot cleanly than chased in terror, and either torn limb from limb, or once I'd followed my instincts and gone to ground (obviously not that weak or sick then) be dug out, faced with snapping terriers and even snappier terriermen, and then to be thrown to the hounds. I'd chose you every time - I've seen people shooting (I have friends that shoot), the animal had no idea it was being stalked, and no idea the bullet was coming. You can't compare a minimum of 17 minutes terror and exhaustion proceeded by a good tearing apart to death in an instant. And there's the jolly old fun that can be had in a good morning's cubbing isn't there - where young viable foxes are penned into a covert and forced into the jaws of the hounds - and you are telling me that in that situation only one hound gets to them first -what would the point of that be when you do it to teach the new hounds to hunt foxes instead of their natural prey. What a crock of old shit! If only more hunters carried the sentiments of Tom!
And before you start harping on about wounded animals - you've got to be a pretty crap shot to wound if you are using the right equipment and shouldn't be doing it in the first place, and given that it can never be ruled out 100% why not train bloodhounds to track the wounded animal like they do in Germany. Never ceases to amaze me how much further down the evolutionary line our European neighbours are sometimes in all sorts of issues! Of course you'll nit pick at that option won't you?! :-)
Sam Hamson, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
This is clearly a fabricated picture not an actual hunting scene. Missing hair nets and platts, show hats not hunting head gear are amongst the obvious points. What a load of rubbish on top of being a waste of money!!
MEEEE, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
People don't know enough about hunting. They pre-judge it mainly people in cities and towns but they don't just kill foxes for the sake of it. From a riding point of veiw hunting is amazing and even when following it's great! After all, people are hardly going to stop wild animals killing their prey as that's the way the food chain works so people would never stop hounds hunting foxes! ITS LIFE! If things really got that bad think about all the hounds that would have to be put down because they didnt have a job. People think that we're all posh snobs and yes you do get some people that are a bit stuck up but you get stuck up people anywhere. Hunting is a tradition so why break it? and things are getting out of hand now people blame the hunts for bad behaviour but its the anti's that come out and stir things that cause trouble. To be honesty they should be busy with thier own lives not interfeering with stuff that they dont have a clue about!
FIGHT THE BAN!
Bev, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Cheers mate 1st Battalion The Rifles 1 RIFLES
Loony Tunes, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Love Nature HUG A TREE,
ban the BaN
Tom, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Welcome home Bev. Well done....
(ex QMSI, Border Regt)
Basil Brush, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
I love going hunting and it is a wonderful art. Watching the hounds work is a pleasure and also the natural selection of one animal catching a weak link in another species is totally natural. In Africa you often see lions catching young or sick antelopes and the foxes that tend to be caught first are the weakest of their breed.
Having hunted for 25 years I have virtually never seen a fox being killed as it is not the spectacle that people seem to think. The fox does not wait for the hounds and all the followers to gather round and watch!
We live in a ridiculous world now that if someone does not like something then they call for it to banned. I smoke and the ban has caused so much damage to local pubs that many are unsustainable now and every village cannot support a no smoking restaurant which is what they effectively have become. The unjust ban on hunting is so irrelevant and poor legislation that is must be overthrown and consigned to history with the labour party....
Remember the rights of a minority!
Boom boom
Bev, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Actually Garry I have just returned from a 14 month stint in Afghanistan. I have 2 weeks leave until I go out to Germany. After not being with my family for over a year, I really do think I am entitled to browse positive sites like this. To date, I have seen roughly 40 corpses including children who have been torn to pieces through ammo fire. It's a little different to fox hunting believe me. Thank you for your assumption that pro hunt people are lazy and childish. I rather like to think I have done something with my life - GET IT INTO PERSPECTIVE
Tom, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
So you have the time too to post then Garry, not working today? Not contributing to the economy?? Your argument is so thin it's transparent. Nothing short of a full-on class war would temper your words eh.. Hunting alone contributes over £1 BILLION in revenue in the UK... or is that too unpleasant a thought for you?
Go out to your local park and hug a tree.. you know you want to....
Tom, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
You want cruel? how about UK forces having to pay an average of £500 per man/woman for kit they should be issued with as of right..!!
I don't hunt foxes with dogs but I do shoot fox, deer and other vermin. I fully support the rights of people to hunt with dogs but I wont personally do it. I prefer the one shot, one kill method. It is my duty, as a trained hunter, to minimise the suffering of ANY animal I shoot be it deer or the much hated rat. Those who know nothing of hunting have no idea in the slightest how the balance of nature gives, in the main, the edge to the animal. Get your stalking skills wrong and you'll have nothing to shoot at.
Garry, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Nice to see the majority of posters here are pros - happily posting throughout the day. And you call antis jobless scum! Hilarious - why don't you all get off your lazy fat arses and do something that actually contributes to our flagging economy instead of sitting stamping your feet and pushing out your childish lips because you can't get your kicks from torturing small animals any more - got one answer get another hobby - or better a job! you bunch of economically useless, time wasting idiots
Macartney, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Do you think this is a wise way to spend my money?
(Well the little I have left after Heather took most of it!)
What a girl.........
Bev, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Thank you Tracey - that made me smile today!
Tracey Green, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
I am a city dweller who supports fox hunting having prepared a thesis for my doctorate on wild mammmal survival in the UK. There is no doubt that the little old ladies who are the most common followers of hounds would not continue if hunting was cruel.
Tracey Green, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Bear baiting cock fighting and bull fighting are all clearly cruel activities which do nothing for the aprticipating species. Since the abolition of fox hunting the fox population has suffered badly due to vigorous control by land managers.
Losa, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Bev, I seriously agree with that. It would be an intersting split
Losa, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Yes you will say If you witnessed it why didnt u do anything.
I turned up to feed these ducks in the morning and the fox was just gone, as he jumped the fence as i drove up.
Bev, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
It would be interesting to see a break down of the lifestyles of thoses voting i.e country living or City Living i.e those in the know and those who are not
Rosie, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Jenny, actually yes, we do lamb inside. I said after lambing time, when the sheep are in the fields. But as an experienced farmer Im sure you will already be aware that some farmers lamb outside, especcially hill farmers. And i doubt that it would be viable to put your wonderful fences all over the highlands and hills of northumbria. Again, actually yes, I and other farmers know that its foxes mauling lambs because we have seen them doing it. It is not a case as you say of me being told things by 'red coats'? As for your comment about fox scavenged carcasses, as an experienced farmer id be suprised if you actually know many others that leave dead lambs scattered all over the countryside to be 'scavenged!' Also, animals that scavenge collect dead things to take away and eat, usually, the lambs we find in the fields have just been mutilated and left! Thats not scavenging!
Losa, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
I have hunted on foot with a pack of beagles since i could barely walk, I have witnessed a few kills of hares and occasionally of foxes, although yes i can see where people are coming from when they say it is brutal, you have to remember that the animal in question is dead as soon as the first hound gets to it as the first hound gets the throat. Therefore when you say the animal is being ripped apart ITS ALREADY DEAD. so wtf? you burn dead carcases. I live on a sheep farm and have witnessed a single dog fox (i know because i shot him) kill 3 lambs, when i saw this i had no way of killing him. I have also seen another fox kill 13 mucovy ducks, the worst of this is that although the fox had got in to get food, 10 of these ducks had just had their heads pulled off. Is this anymore"Brutal" than what a hunt does to a fox?? I think not. SO to all who oppose the ban, really. just go out and actually WAtch a hunt inprogress. Please, then give an unbiased opinion
JE, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
appart from the fact that the photo seems to depict show jumpers, i guess that the idiots that put it up hope to debate hunting. if this is the case then the answer to their question (in my oppinion at least) is neither.
Hunting is a valid form of pest control and the species hunted in this country (pre ban) need controling.
As for the birthright argument i think it is really time that the media stopped trying to push the class thing, as was seen by the marches against the ban on hunting, this is a sport enjoyed by a wide range of people from a wide range of backgrounds and while owning a horse may be beyond some peoples pocket (myself included) there is nothing to stop people following on foot, bike car etc, or taking part in Beagling or Mink hunting which is always done on foot anyway and i think everyone owns a pair of boots or trainers.
lets just hope the ban get overturned and we can get back to what we love.
tracy, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
birthright as was my fathers his father and thereon and now its my daughters birthright why are they showing a photo of a bunch of showjumpers (nothing against you guys) born to hunt f**k the ban
Emma Walters, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
bring back hunting.....its natural :) and it is immoral to take away our rights as humans to do what we want.
Adrian, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
............ and some showjumper wear back coats, so they had better look out as well.
I agree ............. who sents up these ridiculous poles.
Fight prejudice and Fight the Ban.
The Act is unworkable, and worse still unenforceable. Normal hunting activities should be restored within a middle ground framework - what should have happened in the first place! Enough is enough.
Michael Whitaker, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Best not wear my red jacket for fear of attacks by antis! They will be after me next!
Nick Skelton, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
I wonder who did this poll? Is it about hunting or showjumping?
Geoff Billington, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Neither do I John. I dont think it is my birthright either...just my job
John Whittaker, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
I do not think showjumpers are brutal?
Very odd!
Nitemare, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Talk about a cheap shot- guaranteed to get a reaction, and to raise the same old ill-informed prejudices.
Pity the ad-men chose a photograph of showjumpers as their fly in the water.
Bill the Beagler, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Those who have never hunted have not known what is one of the most ancient, truest and deepest of all field sports. Nothing compares to the sight or the music of a pack in full pursuit and nothing could be more natural than the quick kill of the quarry. Its detractors should look elsewhere for brutality and not amongst those who would maintain this fine and dearly-loved heritage.
Jenny, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Interesting point Kate - but at a time when governement definitely has even more important administration issues to deal with, a high ranking Tory has admitted that overturning a ban on fox hunting will be one of their priorities! Yippee - all change there then.
So Rosie - you find fox 'savaged' lamb carcasses in the morning - but you don't actually see the fox killing the lamb? - so you are assuming that it has because that's what the red coats tell you! You'd do better to grab yourself some real evidence you could present to the world. Can you imagine someone convicting an oppoortunist whole stole an already dead man's watch for murder? I feel you are probably finding 'fox scavenged carcasses'. Perhaps you could consider having your ewes lamb inside - i know we do and never lose any. As for fox proof fencing, I'm not sure what century you are living in or what equipment you are using, but believe me we have managed it and to date have not lost one hen despite having a healthy fox population round and about. In fact they do us a favour by controlling rabbit numbers that are our biggest pests, despite what fox hunters would spin you. Please all of you pros, do yourselves a favour and stop asuming everyone in the countryside agrees with fox hutning. Its outdated and inefficient and more to the point cruel. Just provides a fallguy for poor farming and sport for a few idiots on horseback.
Kate, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Hunting is not brutal, but a necessary and effecient form of pest control. Although hunting people do not help themselves by often being inconsiderate and rude on public roads, we are still people who love the British countryside and enjoy seeing hounds hunting, for which they were born.
What is most worrying is that the British Government banned hunting, when it had more important and significant things to consider.
Marcus, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Well said Sarah
Rosie, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
What annoys me is people putting ridiculous ideas forward such as "correct fencing" to keep a fox out, and "lazy farming practice". If these people had any experience of what is is to live and work on the land they would know that no type of fence is going to keep out a fox if it wants to get in. Similarly, I would suggest that they offer to go and help at a local farm for a while where they would see this point proved, and also see that farmers strive for excellent practice and yet are still inevitably subject to problems with vermin. When i say vermin, I mean anything from foxes to pigeons and rats. It is ignorance that is the problem here and like somebody pointed out earlier, people can offer statistics and "university surveys" all they want to, but what will speak loudest for me is going out in the morning after lambing time and regularly (especially since the ban) finding fox savaged lamb carcasses.If you dont live or work in the countryside and have experience of this sort of thing, i find it impossible that you can truly comprehend the issues surrounding this arguament. Likewise, I would not venture to offer up opinions on cultures and societies that I have no experience of, even if I thought I had a point, as without truly understanding the issues, I would most likely be offering a biased or ignorant point of view.
I would also point out that contributors such as 'what ban' and 'del boy' ought not comment unless they can offer a sensible and sound contribution in support of the hunt as they represent a small minority who give hunting a bad name, when in fact the majority of hunt supporters are genuine people who realise that it is an important part of countryside life that must be protected and preserved by offering truthful and helpful arguaments.
Sarah, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
@ Jo - please produce this "scientific proof" of which you speak when you have dug it up from your lab.
I now live in the city and every morning when I walk past the hundreds of rubbish bags reeking of fox piss spilling out all over the place because they have been ripped open by foxes during the night (funnily enough, they are shy creatures which may account for the lack of visual evidence of them in the act of slaughter - and I would imagine most farmers don't have the time or inclination to rig up a CCTV system and post the video on you tube) I am struck by the irony that those who are anti-hunting are generally urban dwellers.
I witnessed an anit-hunt member run over 3 hounds (two of them were so badly injured they had to be put down) and spraying some sort of pepper spray in numerous horses eyes. Animal lovers? Really?
hmmm, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
well spotted martin, they are in Pink coats yet no platted mane?
Martin, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Pity your image of supposed hunting folk is incorrect, you are depicting a group of showjumpers!!
As per usual people like to oppose something they know diddly squat about.
Rob, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
It’s a Birthright of this country to have the right to choose and be able to vote. So even if you are in opposition to hunting, you still have the right to choose that fact.
Brutality is not necessarily bad, is not putting down a dog that has chronic heart disease brutal? It’s a humane way but it’s still brutal.
So both refer to hunting but which refers to the release of the ban?
Let’s just hope that this vote helps us all to cry Tally Ho to the Ban.... even if its badly structured
Helen, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
A pack of hounds or poisoning or a pot shot with a rifle?
I know which one I'd choose. (that would be the first one btw)
Most people are so removed from the realities of life and death in nature that they can't see anything other than little humans in cute fluffy animal bodies.
Born to hunt. Forced to march. Prepared to Fight!
Marcus, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Hunting does nothing to control fox populations, it does however deter them from going onto land that is hunted and therefore helps protect all the free range chickens. I am pro hunt, and for those of you who say the fox is torn apart I suggest you do some homework and check your facts. Hunting is more than just about the hunt, they take fallen stock from farmers free of charge if there is no hunt the farmer has to pay for this service and that means prices go up. Perhaps we should ban cars and stop all the roadkill?? Oh and well said Bev!!
Bev, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Once again rural life is under scrutiny by City/Town folk who really don't know or understand why we hunt. Hunting is not a class thing - the stereotype is, but in fact ordinary working class village people hunt too. My lads shoot pheasants and rabbits. We support our local hunt in which our neighbour - a builder - is a member. After reading last week that town people deliberately poison the food in their dustbins to kill off foxes, isn't this all stones and glasshouses?
Jason, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
Hunting is a way of life. The sooner people come to terms with that fact the better. When one sees the cruelty inflicted on animals by the likes of PETA and the RSPCA (ostensibly fighting for animal rights but in fact putting down more animals than any huntsman) it makes one realise what blatant hypocrisy the whole hunting act really is.
libby Knowles, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
BAN THE BAN!!!!
Donna Scott, Wednesday, 22 April 2009
It is neither a birthright or a brutality - what a stupid, loaded question. Can we please stop attacking the people who hunt - most of whom aren't "toffs" anyway, and remember that hunting is about wildlife management. And please stop the tired old nonsense about bear baiting. Gambling and wildlife management couldn't be more radically different.
Nat, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
I think it is disgusting, killing for sport is sick!! I think that it is animal cruelty at a high level, everyone has their opinion and is free to express it however i do not think people are free to torture a poor animal to death so they can get an adrenaline rush off it and then move on to the next victim!
ph, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
hunting is a way os life
Rudie, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
@Henry
I wonder how many KFCs you can eat before a horse would collapse under your weight?
Del Boi, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
Hunting is way way way awesome
BG, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
'Hooray' Henry- People like you are the reason that the hunting fraternity get such a bad press. Sort your attitude out, we don't need arseholes like you giving us a bad rep.
Dale, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
@Henry
Extra Extra read all about it "only anti fox hunters eat KFC"
Pillock
lucy, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
hunting is way mean
Sophie, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
Fox hunters show a complete lack of empathy; don't they have better things to do with their time (and money) than needlessly killing an animal?
Henry, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
lol lol lol people who dont like hunting are "just alot of foot stampers" who do not like the fact they are left out of this fantastic sport. i guess it is because they are too fat from KFC to get on a horse.
Del, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
found yourself some more fans here i see maggie
jon, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
I agree 100% with that comment
stella, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
maggie...your arguement stands on nothing but arm chair psychology, comparing hunters to at best crazed murders and worse nazis and your evidance is from youtube....your a total idiot and your making a twat of yourself
Maggie, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
Here here Jo. The pro argument stands on nothing but biased anecdotal evidence and falls at the first challenge.
Jo, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
Fox hunting has been scientifically proven to have no effect on fox numbers. No one is denying that they can cause problems for farmers, but as hunting with hounds has no effect it therefore has no benefit to farmers. The argument that it is better than shooting is weak at best- there is no evidence that a fox dies quickly in a hunt (other than anecdotal evidence by hunters). Even the vets evidence that showed the 'quick kill' submitted to the Burns enquiry was submitted by equine vets who by their own admission on their webiste frequently hunt and have done for years- funny how the unbiased evidence conducted by a university showed the opposite.
This is indeed about a section of society who believe that the laws that govern the rest of should not not apply to them, because 'only they understand the countryside' - they need to wake up and realise that animal cruelty laws should apply to everyone.
Lets strengthen the ban not repeal it and ensure that it is enforceable.
sonia, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
I do not agree with fox hunting, it is cruel, and so is rat traps and poison!! More should be done to provent foxes getting to live stock in the first place, anyone who wants info go to the natonal fox welfare site and they will tell you the correct fencing to put up, I agree totally with maggie
trev, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
keep on hunting sod the ban
charlie, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
Maggie, I have watched both badger and fox kill lambs, and once they have done it once they will carry on doing it. Some vixens will have their cubs to coincide with lambing time, and when you reach their earth's, there are the remains of lambs at every entrance. Rogue foxes need to be removed as they become a real problem. Pheasants getting blasted out of the sky keep many people in jobs and create habitat's which benefit many wild creatures. Without the pheasants there would be less jobs and less wildlife habitat's. Everything you have said is rubbish, please go with open eyes and view for yourself the destruction created by rogue foxes.
Giles Bradshaw, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
Hunting with dogs is less cruel and better wildlife management than other means of killing foxes/
tm, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
for everyone who says its cruel to hunt foxes: its no different from you putting down a mouse trap or putting down rat poison. its vermin control, something that needs to be done. and why shouldnt anyone enjoy something that has to be done?
Dale, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
I dont live in the city, I am not a lefty, I am not a student, I am not a liberal. Fox hunting is needless, barbaric and heinous. There are many many legitimate ways to keep populations down without tearing animals apart for fun. However whenever you put these ideas forward you get one stock crap answer. "Too expensive". Utter rubbish. Constant replacement of stock is just as expensive whereas if the populations were being controlled the stock wouldnt to be replaced.
TAW, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
anyone who thinks a fox, hare or other animals are poor defenseless "Disney" animals haven't a clue. Live a day with a farmer and see for yourself what damage animals do when left unchecked. The farmers are growing YOUR food, they should have the right to protect their land and crops, and we should have the right to assist them, work our dogs and maintain our way of life. Less Government involvement in our lives!
morgan, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
SLIIIIIIPPPP THE DAAAAWWWG!
oh and btw when i say that it restricts people, all i mean is that it makes them feel a little more sneaky about there job, not one lurcher owner has stopped hunting foxes, and the never will, our prisons are full to the brim, and you lot want to put more people in there? just for allowing a dog to run after a fox? please.
Eddie S, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
Claire - I just don't agree that Hunting is brutal or even cruel and even if I cannot persuade you on that argument I simply don't have an issue with killing a fox by hunting it or shooting it.
Why don't I just go drag hunting? I do, and it is very enjoyable but a bit like going to a golf driving range, it's fun but it just is not the same as playing a round on a beautiful links course; in honesty, I am not entirely sure why but the lack of predictability coupled with the excitement of the chance of a real chase must have something to do with it.
Why do I still do it even thought it's banned? First, the ban is ineffective and the manner in which hunting now takes place is generally accepted as being within the law which is why there have hardly been any successful prosecutions; therefore, I am not acting "above the law". Second, and more importantly, because I am not going to stand by and watch whilst our incompetent government panders to an ill-informed minority of the general public on a matter which has no effect whatsoever on them but a huge effect on the rural section of society. I believe in hunting, I believe in the countryside and I believe in supporting what I believe in.
Maggie - with all respect, I don't care where you're from or what you do or how much money you have. I agree that the "EU" and Tescos have not been very helpful towards farming in the UK (to put it mildly) and I expect that most pro hunters would agree with that as well. However, there is not a huge amount we can do to unwind our membership of the EU nor is there to reduce the power of Tescos but at least we continue to hunt in defiance of the "ban" as a way of showing our solidarity towards the countryside and the agricultural community at large.
Seriously, go hunting you'd love it!
morgan, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
maggie, you answered your own question, we live in a world where data and statistics instead of the reality of seeing with your own eyes leads the way, i personally do not want my life to be governed by your statistics and i think that everyone should get out more, see more and do more instead of relying on others for information.
morgan, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
it is nothing like dog fighting, if you think that then you have never seen, don't understand, or are just plain dumb, death is quick, and the idea that its like a dog fight is laughable since the point of a dog fight is to watch, and with most hunts only one person (if that) will actually see the kill. he is there doing his job, controlling the hounds, the rest of the hunters are there to ride, the ban has not affected thees people, but it has affected working class professional pest controllers, the reason it got banned is mainly due to a bit of class warfare, i have no patience with toffs, but when you interfere with someones livelihood and stop him/her from using his dog(s) to efficiently control foxes (legally) what you are doing is evil. hunting with lurchers is banned now despite the death bein quicker than most shotgun kills, definitely less painful and alot more fair. the fox does have a chance of escape, why do people insist on distancing themselves from nature? foxes are pests, they will always be hunted, not one fox was saved by the ban and i should think alot more died harsher deaths, i.e. snaring or gassing. when the ban came in alot of farmers who had been leaving the foxes alone for the hunt, went out and killed as many as they could, they also had to fork out money to pest controllers to do the job for them, this means that far from helping foxes the ban actually helped persecute them. congratulations animal lovers, all you did was help loud mouthed scum get their way.
the ban is unworkable, more people are getting interested in fox hunting, and support continues to grow, three hunts have opened since the ban came in and not one has closed. all people want is there rights returned to them.
Ali, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
Thanks to this stupid ban, on the private estate where I live, the fox population has exploded. My neighbours have had numerous chickens ripped to shreds, maimed and left to die by foxes, and the gamekeeper has so far shot 120 foxes instead of the usual seasonal number of around 40. The other week two chickens were savaged by a pair of hunting foxes in front of their eyes in broad daylight, and I regularly watch this pair rounding up the terrified sheep and lambs in the field next to my yard - they haven't succeeded in killing any of these yet as their antics have so far been disturbed by walkers on the adjacent footpath. I have horses, rent my cottage from the estate for a modest sum and am no toff. I come from generations of family that worked the land and I am sick and tired of townies dictating to us on how the countryside should be managed. I presume these are the same ignorant people that allow their children to feed my horses rubbish, giving them choke, and have even been known to go into my rented paddocks to "make a fuss of them!" I wonder if they'd appreciate me walking into their gardens to feed their dogs and dictate how they do their gardening.
geoff, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
maggie what you doing this weekend are you out with the ant hill mob robbing some ones grave and taking away the remains or you and your pals going to kill another person with a light aircraft or are we out for a bit of urban terrorism why dont you find your self some thing usefull to do like have a wash and take a flask of soup out with some sandwiches and try and help some poor old pensioner with a spot of gardening or like youd be thought much better of and at least youd be contributing some thing back to society and leave the countryside to people who understand it
tam, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
nothing wrong with hunting
Maggie, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
All this is about is a section of society that doesn't like being told what to do. A lot of footstampers the lot of you. I'm sure you''l all assume I'm a town dwelling, unwashed, unworking, non-farming person because I'm anti fox hunting. Go on bet you all do.
Maggie, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
There is no human right to be cruel. Nice to see all your pro- tired old excuses being trotted out for the umpteenth time. Where is your visual proof that foxes kill lambs? I've not seen any to date and in fact it has been proven that they do not kill lambs and what neglectful farmers tend to find are scavenged lamb carcasses which have died due to poor husbandary and poor modern farming practices. Given the lack of visual evidence of a fox actually killing a lamb would suggest to me that lamb loss is an insignificant factor to farmers otherwise I assume they'd put more effort into finding actual concrete proof that this happens. As for pheasants - you want me to feel hate towards a creature feeding itself upon birds who in a few months will be blasted out of the sky anyway? As for fox being 'nasty and indescriminate' WTF. We are talking about a wild animal here which is following its natural instincts. If it kills an entire coup of chickens, well 1) that's because it finds itself in an enclosed space with them which in the wild it wouldn't and 2) if it could get in in the first place then the coup was pretty shoddy to start with - again lazy farming practices.
If you all stopped believing the fairystories about evil Mr fox put about by the hunting fraternity and actually turned your energies to your real enemy in farming - i.e. the EU and Tesco who fill the shelves with cheap imported shit, you just might be able to save what little farming we have left. But no - be my guest if you decide instead to turn your frustration to killing something smaller that in fact really isn't your worst enemy, and can in fact be very beneficial then you all deserve what's coming to you.
oggy808, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
let country folk control country matters!!!!!! i live in west wales should i have a say where town folk park in any city or town, nothing to do with me let local folk decide
jigsaw, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
its a stupid question from a stupid person that has no grasp on how life works,its really a choice one makes in life wether you decide to pursue a field sport or not,it seems the ban has not worked and will never work.you can lay silly laws but if the majority decide to pursue their right to hunt,then NOTHING AND NO ONE WILL STOP THEM.Think with your brain and not with your heart,like your meant to.LONG LIVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE.
Bows, Tuesday, 21 April 2009
Who here has a life full of love? That'll give us all more of a clue as to where everyone stands on all these issues.
Peace
x
mack, Monday, 20 April 2009
what ban?????? its the birthright of every human being to protect his crops, livestock and feed his family...
fish, Monday, 20 April 2009
i think the ban should be repealed but i do get a laugh from the toffs actually being poachers at the moment!
steve, Monday, 20 April 2009
lets get the tradition back on track, we are losing far too many thaks to the goverment
what ban, Monday, 20 April 2009
theres a ban its not stoping me ban all you like im going out now to kill a fox byyyy
your never stop come and find me you fucks
Mal, Monday, 20 April 2009
Whoever started this topic obviously isn't looking for a balanced answer. I mean, 'Birthright or Brutality', honest to god.
I personally feel that it's neither. The natural world is a whole lot more brutal than a fox hunt, this topic is about class war, pure and simple.
I'd bet most people who oppose fox hunting have never even seen a fox, let alone a fox hunt. Bear in mind that the ban on hunting foxes with dogs, has had absolutely no impact on the numbers of red fox, in fact quite the opposite. The number of people granted firearms certificates has increased. Foxes are now killed in higher numbers than ever before, and guns are indiscriminate. Whereas a fit fox would have a chance of escape from a hunt to pass on it's strong genes, the slower foxes would have been weeded out.
It's the slower, aged, unfit foxes that are a problem for farmers. A fit fox is able to survive in the wild with no need to come into contact with humans.
I don't expect a balanced debate with people that don't understand the countryside, after all, most city folk think of the countryside as somewhere you go to get away from it all, a playground if you will.
It's not, it's a living, breathing, working environment that exists as it is today, solely because it's been kept the way it is for hundreds of years by people that understand it, and that includes the hunts.
kevin, Monday, 20 April 2009
I will always hunt my lurcher and terrier. If i get caught i will continue to hunt if i go down i will hunt when i come out and if i die hunting my kids will hunt when I'm gone. The fact is whatever you anti hunt people say or do it wont change anything about my lifestyle and it never will, millions and millions of hunters just like me will hunt till our dieing day and so will our children. This is a battle you will never win ITS IMPOSERBLE , Just give it up because your looking sad and desperate., Most if not all you say is lies or total bullshit and the public are starting so see that as well.
cheese master general, Monday, 20 April 2009
kill kill kill, its the only way forward, its been going on years why stop it now, keep on hunting chaps and watch out for the stupid, grave digging antis
Mr T Ossers, Monday, 20 April 2009
Dear Oh! dear, birthright or brutality, what a bloody stupid question. A fox IS a brutal killer, a fox has absolutely no feeling for what it kills or maims, a fox will kill more than it needs to feed itself and it's young, a fox will maul and leave chickens dying in agony.
As fox hunter says, "the fox is a pest, we need to control pests" and I'm more than happy to oblige.
thomps, Monday, 20 April 2009
slipppp the dawwwgggg
geoff, Monday, 20 April 2009
ive been hunting all my life and i will continue to do so and no illegal law passed by a corrupt government will ever stop me doing so you antis who post this propaganda and lies about country sports followers should and will be seen for what you are urban terrorists and grave robbers why dont you petition the rspca in respect of the thousands of healthy cats and dogs they murder every year and the stinking conditions they keep them in and these are genuinely defenceless
fox bolter, Monday, 20 April 2009
dont argue with a humane tradition you no nothing about.stay in your dirty towns with kiddy fiddlers,murderers,foriegners etc and leave our countryside alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
fox hunter, Monday, 20 April 2009
the fox is a pest, we need to control pests. we provide a very good haditat for foxes, they thrive and then we end up with lots of unhealthy foxes. would you rather they die quickly or die a slow and painfull death!!!! wake up and smell the coffee!!!!!!!
don, Monday, 20 April 2009
whoooooop whoooooop whoooooooop a hunting we shall go. The ban will soon be lifted.
don, Monday, 20 April 2009
BAN THE BAN!!!!
charlie, Monday, 20 April 2009
I' am a terrierman, I control fox, and I control them as humanely as is possible. My work is the only method of fox control that can target a rogue fox and deal with it without causing suffering. For those that oppose this form of control I say go see the damage fox can cause to the farmers during lambing, go see the damage caused to the pheasants in the rearing pens, then tell me fox are cute and dont just kill for killing sake. Get out there in the countryside, open your eye's and stop looking through rose tinted glasses, stop believing all that is fed to you via anti blood sport writers. I respect my quarry, I only remove problem foxes which are taking game birds, as this is all the law allows. I feel for the sheep farmers, for these us terriermen are unable to carry out our job due to the law.
Edd Whinn, Monday, 20 April 2009
If i want to go and controll problem foxes i will go and controll problem foxes in my countryside,,No goverment tells country people how to mangage our countryside.
john, Monday, 20 April 2009
CLAIRE its called pest control
Maggie, Monday, 20 April 2009
People who want the ban overturned are just a load of foot stampers that don't like being told what to do. Well hello - we're all told what to do in some shape or form so get used to it. Fox hunting is unneccessary, ineffective, and down right cruel - please remember that a 'human right to be cruel' doesn't actually exist! Excuses fielded by pro foxhunters are so contradictory that they send their defence tumbling like a pack of cards in an earthquake. One example being - we only take out the old and the sick - but then we corner young and viable foxes in coverts in the autumn, and drive any escapees back into the hounds' jaws! See what I mean.
Claire, Monday, 20 April 2009
In response to the comments by Eddie S, I refuse to accept that chasing a defenceless animal through the countryside with a pack of blood thirsty hounds and horses isn't cruel. Especially when the ultimate end for this animal is being ripped to shreds by said hounds.
If you fancy a ride through the countryside, then just go riding. Why do you have to chase an animal in order for you to get enjoyment? Also, aren't there now alternatives that means you can still enjoy the thrill of the chase without an animal dying in the process, eg, drag hunting?
Finally, seeing as this has now been made illegal in the UK why do you think you are above the law by still going hunting?
Eddie S, Monday, 20 April 2009
I love hunting but it is expensive which is why I cannot afford to do it very much. The learning to ride, the equipment and then the cost of the day make it prohibitivly expensive. This is not to say that people with less money cannot afford to do it as I have met many people who devote the lives to hunting and find ways to keep costs down. Everyone is, or should be, welcome to and at liberty to hunt so I guess it is technically a birthright although the term gives rise to the class debate which is entirely unhelpful and misleading. A bit like polo, hunting will always be predominantly carried out by those who are richer. I can name many other sports that fall into this category; for example, motor racing and yacht racing. Anyone has the right to take part in all these but few can afford to but that is not to say that such activities are in some way wrong.
Hunting is not brutal or, if it is, I am not sure whether that means it is therefore "wrong". Pursuing a wild animal and killing it is not, in my opinion, so cruel or os brutal so as to make it socially or morally unacceptable. But some people would argue that it is cruel to swat a fly. I respect the anti-cruelty/brutality opinion of those members of society whose lives do not involve the killing of animals. There are few of these people. If you argue that hunting is brutal but still eat battery chickens and cheap Tesco chicken and enjoy a Big Mac well quite frankly your opinion is irrelevant.
Bottom line, if you can ride and can afford it, give a hunting a go. If you think you'll enjoy the feeling of adrenaline rushing through your veins as you hurtle (almost out of control) at giant hedges and ditches and the feeling of galloping at full pace across Britain's beautiful countryside with mud being flung in your face, you'll enjoy hunting. If you can't ride and / or can't afford a day's hunting you're welcome to watch and support a day but if you ask me that's pretty boring.
Tim F, Monday, 20 April 2009
Who is paying for these adverts? I saw this on the Underground this morning and once again the debate around hunting has been reduced to an argument about class. I am sick of this type of thing, I supporting hunting and I’m not a member of the Royal family! People shouldn’t try to make me feel guilty about believing in an activity which is part of British heritage and once which benefits entire communities. I wish people like you would give a balanced opinion rather than roll out the same old arguments.
Tom, Monday, 20 April 2009
Birthright.
What, Monday, 20 April 2009
is this some twisted advertising campaign. Excuse me who is paying for this as it has obviously had a fair amount of money pumped into it. I ended up here from a london underground ad. Is this going to end up being a new look Mcdonalds Campaign or something equally grotesque
MJ, Sunday, 19 April 2009
@ BOB: Theories never become facts. They explain facts.
BOB, Friday, 17 April 2009
Fred Barboo i think u belive in evolution, by the way its only a theory which will never become fact.
Fred Barboo, Friday, 17 April 2009
They're only animals...as are we...animals hunt other animals...
When we cease kidding ourselves that we are some higher being we will live in a healthier society.
It was only Blair getting revenge for Thatcher's crushing of the miners.
Tracey, Thursday, 16 April 2009
This is not the right question. Both options suggest something other than the question of whether hunting should be allowed or not. People who believe that they should have the freedom to go hunting if they so wish would not consider it their 'birthright' - a word which implies a certain social class.
Sara, Wednesday, 15 April 2009
Legitate means of animal control - people who state anything else probably all live in cities and very little clue!
Joel, Wednesday, 15 April 2009
Its the same as dog fighting, bear bating, or cock fights
Either its justified or its not. In my book not - but I havent seen one hunt advocate suggesting a return to bear bating?
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